Re: iPhone development

Thanks Ken.

I hadn't heard of Appcelerator but I'll look around for it and see what I may 
be able to learn about it. It would certainly be convenient to get iPhone and 
Android all in one project. How accessible is it?

I know that Fruit Basket is intended to show blind people how to do UI without 
sighted help. I was just mentioning that I don't do a lot of UI stuff as my UI 
ideas tend to suck and someone always needs to jump in and help me out before 
shipping a program.

The problem with our friends in Venezuela didn't object to a blind person 
writing UI code, they didn't like the entire program being placed in a single 
source file as that would make for a lot of difficulty working on multi-hacker 
projects and generally more difficult to find any specific item.

Blind people should learn how to make GUI code but I am still willing to bet 
that the marketing department will want things rearranged as this is the issue 
even with sighted hackers. Personally, I think emacs has the greatest UI in the 
world so the average man on the street thinks I am probably seriously mentally 
ill.

I would like to see FB for Gnome and for the Apple operating systems but no 
volunteers have come forward yet.

cdh
 
On Oct 10, 2010, at 1:39 PM, Ken Perry wrote:

> Actually you can also use Appcelerator and when using it under Mac you can 
> actually code for IPhone and Android both at the same time.
>  
> Remember though the fruit basket was originally designed to show how to make 
> UI for blind people.  Using a sited person to do it really doesn’t count.  
> That is why I have not done one already.
> Ken
>  
> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Chris Hofstader
> Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2010 1:09 PM
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: iPhone development
>  
> To develop iPhone apps you are almost forced to use the xcode development 
> system that ships with every Macintosh. I know a few blind people who use it 
> with pretty good success. The hardest part, of course, is arranging controls 
> in your UI as there is no accessible way to do this.
>  
> When coding for iPhone, I use emacspeak as my editor and xcode as an IDE and 
> get help from a sightie for layout issues.
>  
> I thought of trying to find someone to help make a "fruit basket" for OSX and 
> iOS but haven't had any takers so far. I'm not even sure that OSX or iOS 
> permit putting all of the UI code in the same file as the rest of the program 
> which is how many of the Fruit Basket programs are designed. Also, while it's 
> possible to write iOS code in C or C++, for all intents and purposes, you are 
> forced to use Objective C, an odd language that only Apple supports as far as 
> I can tell. So, a fruit basket program for a single language (Objective C is 
> preferred for OSX as well) might be something we can find someone to do. Of 
> course, if you embed a WebKit control in your iOS program, you then need to 
> follow the WCAG guidelines for the content you expose using it so JavaScript 
> and some other things become important but doing an FB program would be silly 
> as it is all described nicely in the WCAG and other W3C standards documents.
>  
> I had thought I had a student in Venezuela who was going to make Fruit Basket 
> ports for GNU/Linux systems running the Gnome desktop. She is taking a class 
> called "Computer Languages" which, when I took it back in 1980 or so, taught 
> us 13 languages in 13 weeks and, as I saw it, it was a pretty major waste of 
> time and, to this day, I've never seen anyone ask for Snobol/V, Wafter, 
> Spitbol and a few of the others we had to learn back in the dark ages. Our 
> Venezuelan student's professor liked the idea of the Fruit Basket for Gnome 
> until he found files that contained the UI and the rest of the program as he 
> thinks it is bad software engineering practice. Our student friend is doing 
> all console programs instead and we're still looking for a volunteer to do 
> the FB port.
>  
> I do not find asking for sighted help on UI layout to be a problem for me. 
> When I could see perfectly well, I made sucky user interfaces that someone 
> would need to rearrange in a manner that the marketing people approved of. 
> So, as far as I go, UI layout always required asking for help and I can 
> usually find someone to spiff up my programs pretty efficiently.
>  
>  
> On Oct 9, 2010, at 4:48 PM, Michael Taboada (AI5HF) wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi,
> I was wondering if anyone knew of an accessible way to develop for the iPhone.
> I could use apple's software, or I could use a third party software solution.
> I am running windows.
> Thanks,
>  
> -Michael.
>  
> AI5HF
>  
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