Re: Sonified Debugger vs. Screenreader Question

Andreas,
john hit it correctly on the "may as well do it with the latest version" of VS 2008, also there is a newer version of jaws being implemented as well.
I can't help you with the "how do you's" since I have barely scratched the surface of VS 2005, but there is scripting information, which to clarify those, scripts are what tells jaws how to find items, and how to properly interact with objects and events in a particular program. there is a 'default" set of scripts, that jaws uses if there is no application associated scripts in its folder, but if there is a set of scripts in the folder for the application just opened, it references those first, and then the default scripts. an example; in Microsoft word, the scripts tell it that there is a section of the screen that is to be jumped to if you hit F6, that if you hit another key combo, to go to the tool bar, etc. but the word scripts tell it not to automatically read down the screen when a new document is brought up or when the screen is refreshed, while the scripts for internet explorer, don't have the section that the word ones go to with the f6 keystroke, so that one is not in them, while they tell jaws to automatically read the screen when a new page is brought up.
if you see what I am getting at here, the scripts give specific instructions on what items are, and how to interact with them, when to, and what a certain keystroke combination is to do in that particular application.
another thing to keep in mind, jaws, window eyes and hal, along with the open source screenreaders all use different methods of interaction, differing ways to incorporate information for general and specific application interaction, and different ways to allow us to work with the application, such as jaws use of script files, window eyes uses "set files" and there are far less of them than jaws and its scripts, and hal uses something called map files, which I have no clue on how those work, having never finished the low level research into them that I had planned to do.
your program would be best if it made the interaction of the vs debugger system more able to be interpreted by the readers, along with your use of sounds to assist in the process.
the biggest thing I can say about application interaction and construction, is ** use standard windows controls ** the readers are designed to work with these and understand the aspects of them, if you make custom controls the MSAA info is not there, and the reader is going to try to see the thing, not find a relationship to what it "knows" and sit there giving us little or no interaction due to it not understanding how to do it.
there is scripting information for jaws, a set of setup instructions for visual studios 2002 through 2005, a set of scripts for jaws 6 and up, and a list of the Microsoft built in hot keys available on my grab bag site at: 
http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com
there is as well a set of documents in a zip package on programming for accessibility in games, but the principles apply to general programming as well. 

I hope this is of help to you in your Endeavour,
inthane
. For Blind Programming assistance, Information, Useful Programs, and Links to Jamal Mazrui's Text tutorial packages and Applications, visit me at: 
http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com
. to be able to view a simple programming project in several programming languages, visit the Fruit basket demo site at: 
http://fruitbasketdemo.alacorncomputer.com
----- Original Message ----- From: "John Greer" <jpgreer17@xxxxxxxxxxx> 
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 4:03 PM
Subject: Re: Sonified Debugger vs. Screenreader Question
A couple of things to consider. You may also want to consider downloading and installing the Jaws scripts available at Inthanes site for Visual Studio 2005. You may also want to consider that there is a newer version of Visual Studio now available and you might be better served to develop this for the latest version of the program. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andreas Stefik" <stefika@xxxxxxxxx> 
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 5:45 PM
Subject: Sonified Debugger vs. Screenreader Question



Hi folks,

My research lab is in the process of setting up some experiments
comparing my sonified debugger (Technically it's a sonified omniscient
debugger), with the debugger in Visual Studio using Jaws 8.0. I've
developed a speech based interface that "I hope" will make it easier
to program for the blind community. I know I've said this before, but
my tool is a research prototype, not something you can download, but
nonetheless I hope it will lead folks in the right direction. Anyway,
my lab and I want this test to be as fair as possible, so I was hoping
to ask a few questions of the community about how we should have
everything setup.


Basically what we are doing is:

Download Jaws and Visual Studio.NET 2005, and copy the way it allows
you to navigate and the sounds Jaws outputs into our custom program.
Then, after our usability testing is complete, we compare the way
we've come up with experimentally to the current "State of the art" in
screenreader technology.

Here are my questions:

1. In Visual Studio, the only way I can find to navigate from the
editor window, where I type source code, to the watch window, where
variables are displayed, is by holding CTRL + TAB and using the arrows
to navigate to that window. For anyone that uses the Visual Studio
debugger, is this how they navigate, or is another technique more
common?

2. If I am in the editor window, where I am modifying source code, and
I want to determine the "value" of a variable in the debugger, is
there any way to do that using Visual Studio and Jaws without
navigating to the watch window? How do folks usually determine the
current value of a variable in a debugger?

3. I've heard some about Jaws scripting, but I'm not completely
familiar with what folks use it for in the context of programming. How
does Jaws scripting play into this and would or should its use have an
effect on our experiment in some way?

4. When we do our final analysis of the navigation, sounds, etc, that
Jaws and Visual studio uses, we want the setup for our environment to
be as close to realistic as possible. Are there any settings in either
Visual Studio or Jaws that we should be adjusting before doing our
analysis?

Thanks for any help you can provide!

Andreas
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