Re: Commodo
- From: Jamal Mazrui <empower@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 20:56:34 -0500 (EST)
I know you've mentioned this JAWS problem before. It surprises me that
JAWS continues to be worse with special characters ever since JAWS 6. I
know that software sometimes takes a step back in an area while other
features are being added, but I would think that Freedom Scientific has to
correct such a problem for international customers. What does it say
about the issue?
Jamal
On Wed, 31 Oct 2007, Octavian
Rasnita wrote:
> Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 21:25:07 +0200
> From: Octavian Rasnita <orasnita@xxxxxxxxx>
> Reply-To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: Commodo
>
> Jaws 7, 8, and probably 9 don't work well with any application if the users
> need to use special chars in other languages, so it wouldn't be an
> advantage, because I've seen that Commodo also miss some features, not only
> accessibility features.
>
> Octavian
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Aaron Leventhal" <aaronlev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 8:51 PM
> Subject: Re: Commodo
>
>
> > Hi Octavian,
> >
> > I just saw at the end of this that you are using JAWS 6. Unfortunately
> > JAWS only started making Mozilla technologies accessible since something
> > like JAWS 7.1
> >
> > You ask if Firefox is the same. I would say no -- we (largely myself) have
> > put a large amount of effort specifically into making Firefox itself
> > accessible. No such effort has yet gone into Komodo (note -- it's spelled
> > with a K and one M).
> >
> > It would be great to find out if more recent versions of JAWS (such as the
> > JAWS 9 beta) work better with Komodo.
> >
> > - Aaron
> >
> > Octavian Rasnita wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> I have installed again Commodo and here is what I found:
> >>
> >> 1. If I press Insert+num pad minus in order to route the Jaws cursor to
> >> the PC cursor, sometimes the menu is activated, but only sometimes.
> >>
> >> 2. I needed to use the Jaws cursor, because right after starting Commodo,
> >> the editor is not accessible. I expected to press Insert+Tab and hear
> >> "edit", but instead I heard something more strange.
> >>
> >> 3. I opened the File menu, and I selected "New" and I pressed enter and
> >> in that moment I've seen that the new option has a submenu which is not
> >> announced by Jaws. Does Commodo need some special scripts which are not
> >> provided by Jaws 6? I am using Jaws 6 because the Eloquence from newer
> >> versions of Jaws doesn't read the special chars correctly.
> >>
> >> 4. I chosen to create a new file and it appeared a list with file
> >> formats, telling "Templates list Text 20 of 22, -85004040 of 0"... or a
> >> closed number.
> >>
> >> I've noticed that the FruitBasket program made by Jamal with XUL works
> >> the same, telling that garbage with minus 85000000 of 0.
> >>
> >> 5. After choosing "Perl file" and pressing enter, it created a new tab
> >> named "perl1.pl" or something like that. I cannot read the exact title of
> >> the tab, because I cannot use the Jaws cursor well in Commodo. If I route
> >> the Jaws cursor to the PC cursor, I see that the menus are activated.
> >>
> >> 6. Another problem I've seen is because If I just move the Jaws cursor, a
> >> menu seems to activate itself without needing any click. This is very
> >> bad, because I can't read the screen with the Jaws cursor.
> >> Anything I do, I cannot read the titles of tab pages with the Jaws
> >> cursor.
> >>
> >> 7. Now in the editing area, if I press Insert+tab, instead of telling me
> >> "edit" like most text editors, it tells me a very long string which is
> >> not nice at all".
> >> Do I need to change the Windows Class of the editing area? I think I'll
> >> try this. (I also need to change the highlight color assignment, because
> >> if I select a text in the editor, Jaws cannot read that text).
> >>
> >> 8. I've tried changing something in the file then save it. I've seen
> >> that the "Save as" window doesn't allow us choosing the encoding of the
> >> file (which is not very important to be right here) but it also don't
> >> allow us to choose the end of line format in which we want to save the
> >> file (Unix/Win/Mac), and this is important to be right here, at least for
> >> me. This is not a bug, but just a missing feature.
> >>
> >> 9. Sometimes if I press Control+Home in the editing area in order to move
> >> the cursor at the beginning of the file, Jaws tells me "File, Edit,
> >> Code... the name of all the menus.
> >> It seems that this happends because Jaws can't discover where is the PC
> >> cursor after pressing Control+S then escape. Now I can press the up or
> >> down arrows, control+Tab or shift+Control+tab, but nothing happends. Jaws
> >> doesn't speak anything. I think I need to restart Commodo.
> >> If I try to use the Jaws cursor and I move it faster up or down, Jaws
> >> doesn't speak anything.
> >>
> >> 10. I've tried to delete the text word by word with control+backspace.
> >> The words are deleted, but Jaws doesn't speak those words.
> >>
> >> 11. I've tried to read the status bar of the window with the Jaws cursor,
> >> because it is too much text there and I want to see the line and column
> >> number of the cursor, but I can't read the status bar neither, because
> >> each time I press Control+left or right arrows, a menu seems to be
> >> opened.
> >> Now I've tried to see what's in that menu, because at a certain moment
> >> when moving the Jaws cursor with control+left or right, I hear "menu".
> >> I've tried then using up and down arrows. I have also tried first
> >> switching to the PC cursor, then using up or down, but with no luck.
> >> After doing that, I couldn't continue to read the text written in the
> >> editing area. I couldn't even return to Outlook Express because I
> >> couldn't read anything in this message I write right now. So I needed to
> >> close Commodo a second time, then I was able to write you.
> >>
> >> 12. I've seen that message "minus 85 millions and something of 0" is read
> >> when using a combo box too. Too bad, especially that in combo boxes the
> >> real number of the list elements is not read at all.
> >>
> >> 13. In the "Find" dialog (Control+F), the buttons don't have a hotkey
> >> defined, or at least Jaws cannot detect it if using Shift+Num pad 5.
> >>
> >> 14. Even if I press Control+F or Control+H for replace, the Window that
> >> appear is always entitled "Find and replace". This can be confusing
> >> sometimes.
> >>
> >> 15. I've tried to change some preferences from the Edit menu, but some
> >> elements are not very accessible because the text that describes them are
> >> not read entirely.
> >>
> >> 16. After closing with Ok button that preferences window, now Jaws lost
> >> the focus again and I cannot read the text from the editor with the PC
> >> cursor. So I need to close and reopen Commodo once more.
> >>
> >> 17. I like that Commodo has F8 and shift+F8 for jumping to the previous
> >> and next subroutine, but this can be done so easy with a find for "sub "
> >> then jumping around with F3 and Shift+F3 which is better known. A helpful
> >> thing though. I hope it also offers the possibility of defining
> >> bookmarks.
> >>
> >>
> >> 18. Control+F8 for finding all functions could be nice if its interface
> >> would be better, but Jaws speaks so much garbage, that I would prefer to
> >> search the subroutines manually than in that list. And after displaying
> >> that list of functions (subroutines), I wasn't able to make it disappear
> >> with an escape, but I needed to choose a subroutine then press enter.
> >> Maybe the focus moved to that subroutine, but then I wasn't able to move
> >> the cursor from there, but first I needed to switch the focus to another
> >> application then come back.
> >>
> >> 19. I've saved a file and Jaws lost again the focus. I've pressed for a
> >> few times some keys like control+Tab and others I don't remember and Jaws
> >> read for me some checkboxes without names. I've even seen a list of files
> >> and I pressed enter on one of them and Commodo told me that there is no
> >> such a file and asked me if I want to create it. Ok, I understand I might
> >> have been doing something wrong, but I wanted to read again that dialog
> >> message but I couldn't do it and this is not ok.
> >> Jaws was not reading anything, so I have chosen that I don't want to
> >> create that file.
> >>
> >> 20. I couldn't see an easy way of defining more bookmarks like in TextPad
> >> and this feature is very important for me.
> >> I've seen other things like breakpoints and other things, but no hotkeys
> >> for creating a bookmark, deleting a bookmark, jumping to the previous
> >> and next bookmark, and deleting all the bookmarks.
> >> Isn't this possible with Commodo?
> >>
> >> Anyway, as you might have seen, Commodo is very hard accessible at least
> >> with Jaws 6 without special scripts for it, but even if it can be made to
> >> be more accessible, it doesn't have some features other editors have.
> >>
> >> Is Firefox same... "accessible"?
> >>
> >> Octavian
> >>
> >> __________
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> >>
> >>
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