Re: Commodo
- From: Jamal Mazrui <empower@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 15:39:56 -0500 (EST)
It seems that you have choices since you mentioned other synthesizers.
You are choosing JAWS 6 and its flaws over a later JAWS version and a
synthesizer you don't like as much.
Jamal
On Thu, 1 Nov 2007, Octavian Rasnita
wrote:
> Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 21:08:35 +0200
> From: Octavian Rasnita <orasnita@xxxxxxxxx>
> Reply-To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: Commodo
>
> I don't want to use Jaws with an english sinthesizer, but as I said, I have
> no other choice, because in the first time I need a sinthesizer that can
> speak very fast and clear, and there is no such sinthesizer for romanian.
>
> I've wrote FS and they told me about those settings in Jaws. I've made them,
> but without succeeding to make Eloquence speak exactly like in Jaws 6.
>
>
> Octavian
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jamal Mazrui" <empower@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 9:21 PM
> Subject: Re: Commodo
>
>
> > Hi Octavian,
> > Have you reported the problem to FS, and if so, what has been the
> > response? FS may, indeed, decide the number of customers helped is not
> > worth the development cost, but it may not be aware that this is a problem
> > significant enough to deter a user from upgrading from JAWS 6.
> >
> > I'm curious how often users want to read another language with an English
> > synthesizer. If that works best for you, so be it, but if this is
> > essentially a hack, then it seems unfair to suggest the problem is with
> > JAWS support of foreign languages, and to expect application developers to
> > support JAWS 6 because of this aspect. Being unfamiliar with how blind
> > users of other languages generally operate, I hope these are reasonable
> > questions to ask.
> >
> > Jamal
> > On
> > Thu, 1 Nov 2007, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
> >
> >> Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 08:38:18 +0200
> >> From: Octavian Rasnita <orasnita@xxxxxxxxx>
> >> Reply-To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> Subject: Re: Commodo
> >>
> >> Well, I guess they don't really care about this issue, because I think
> >> there
> >> are no many customers that need to read a text in romanian language with
> >> the
> >> english synthesizer.
> >> Unfortunately there is no a similar synthesizer in romanian language.
> >> There
> >> is one that works pretty fast named WinTalker but it sounds very robotic
> >> and
> >> it doesn't work fast enough. There is also one named Ivona with a
> >> romanian
> >> voice named Carmen, a very good quality voice, but which is too less
> >> responsive to be used for day by day tasks, and if it use with a high
> >> speed,
> >> it doesn't sound very well, and there is also a Dolphin hardware synth
> >> that
> >> some users like, but I don't really like it either.
> >>
> >> So I need to use the English Eloquence with romanian texts.
> >>
> >> In this case, why should FS bother about this small problem?
> >>
> >> Jaws 7 started to use UTF-8 or something like that, and since then, the
> >> Eloquence doesn't work well, because it reads s instead of degrees, or t
> >> instead of thorn.
> >>
> >> But even Windows has some issues I guess, because when I switched from
> >> Windows 2000 to Win XP I've noticed that when typing right alt+S or t, or
> >> a,
> >> Jaws doesn't speak the typed letter. It is typed, but Jaws doesn't read
> >> it
> >> even it is set to speak each typed letter.
> >>
> >> I've made some changes in a configuration file in Jaws for letting it
> >> read
> >> correctly those letters, but the result was pretty bad.
> >>
> >> In this situation, I don't think it would be a benefit to use an editor
> >> like
> >> Commodo, especially that it doesn't have many additional features but it
> >> surely has some features missing.
> >>
> >> Octavian
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Jamal Mazrui" <empower@xxxxxxxxx>
> >> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 3:56 AM
> >> Subject: Re: Commodo
> >>
> >>
> >> >I know you've mentioned this JAWS problem before. It surprises me that
> >> > JAWS continues to be worse with special characters ever since JAWS 6.
> >> > I
> >> > know that software sometimes takes a step back in an area while other
> >> > features are being added, but I would think that Freedom Scientific has
> >> > to
> >> > correct such a problem for international customers. What does it say
> >> > about the issue?
> >> >
> >> > Jamal
> >> > On Wed, 31 Oct 2007, Octavian
> >> > Rasnita wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 21:25:07 +0200
> >> >> From: Octavian Rasnita <orasnita@xxxxxxxxx>
> >> >> Reply-To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> Subject: Re: Commodo
> >> >>
> >> >> Jaws 7, 8, and probably 9 don't work well with any application if the
> >> >> users
> >> >> need to use special chars in other languages, so it wouldn't be an
> >> >> advantage, because I've seen that Commodo also miss some features, not
> >> >> only
> >> >> accessibility features.
> >> >>
> >> >> Octavian
> >> >>
> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> From: "Aaron Leventhal" <aaronlev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 8:51 PM
> >> >> Subject: Re: Commodo
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> > Hi Octavian,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I just saw at the end of this that you are using JAWS 6.
> >> >> > Unfortunately
> >> >> > JAWS only started making Mozilla technologies accessible since
> >> >> > something
> >> >> > like JAWS 7.1
> >> >> >
> >> >> > You ask if Firefox is the same. I would say no -- we (largely
> >> >> > myself)
> >> >> > have
> >> >> > put a large amount of effort specifically into making Firefox itself
> >> >> > accessible. No such effort has yet gone into Komodo (note -- it's
> >> >> > spelled
> >> >> > with a K and one M).
> >> >> >
> >> >> > It would be great to find out if more recent versions of JAWS (such
> >> >> > as
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > JAWS 9 beta) work better with Komodo.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > - Aaron
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Octavian Rasnita wrote:
> >> >> >> Hi,
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I have installed again Commodo and here is what I found:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> 1. If I press Insert+num pad minus in order to route the Jaws
> >> >> >> cursor
> >> >> >> to
> >> >> >> the PC cursor, sometimes the menu is activated, but only sometimes.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> 2. I needed to use the Jaws cursor, because right after starting
> >> >> >> Commodo,
> >> >> >> the editor is not accessible. I expected to press Insert+Tab and
> >> >> >> hear
> >> >> >> "edit", but instead I heard something more strange.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> 3. I opened the File menu, and I selected "New" and I pressed enter
> >> >> >> and
> >> >> >> in that moment I've seen that the new option has a submenu which is
> >> >> >> not
> >> >> >> announced by Jaws. Does Commodo need some special scripts which are
> >> >> >> not
> >> >> >> provided by Jaws 6? I am using Jaws 6 because the Eloquence from
> >> >> >> newer
> >> >> >> versions of Jaws doesn't read the special chars correctly.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> 4. I chosen to create a new file and it appeared a list with file
> >> >> >> formats, telling "Templates list Text 20 of 22, -85004040 of 0"...
> >> >> >> or
> >> >> >> a
> >> >> >> closed number.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I've noticed that the FruitBasket program made by Jamal with XUL
> >> >> >> works
> >> >> >> the same, telling that garbage with minus 85000000 of 0.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> 5. After choosing "Perl file" and pressing enter, it created a new
> >> >> >> tab
> >> >> >> named "perl1.pl" or something like that. I cannot read the exact
> >> >> >> title
> >> >> >> of
> >> >> >> the tab, because I cannot use the Jaws cursor well in Commodo. If I
> >> >> >> route
> >> >> >> the Jaws cursor to the PC cursor, I see that the menus are
> >> >> >> activated.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> 6. Another problem I've seen is because If I just move the Jaws
> >> >> >> cursor, a
> >> >> >> menu seems to activate itself without needing any click. This is
> >> >> >> very
> >> >> >> bad, because I can't read the screen with the Jaws cursor.
> >> >> >> Anything I do, I cannot read the titles of tab pages with the Jaws
> >> >> >> cursor.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> 7. Now in the editing area, if I press Insert+tab, instead of
> >> >> >> telling
> >> >> >> me
> >> >> >> "edit" like most text editors, it tells me a very long string which
> >> >> >> is
> >> >> >> not nice at all".
> >> >> >> Do I need to change the Windows Class of the editing area? I think
> >> >> >> I'll
> >> >> >> try this. (I also need to change the highlight color assignment,
> >> >> >> because
> >> >> >> if I select a text in the editor, Jaws cannot read that text).
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> 8. I've tried changing something in the file then save it. I've
> >> >> >> seen
> >> >> >> that the "Save as" window doesn't allow us choosing the encoding of
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> file (which is not very important to be right here) but it also
> >> >> >> don't
> >> >> >> allow us to choose the end of line format in which we want to save
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> file (Unix/Win/Mac), and this is important to be right here, at
> >> >> >> least
> >> >> >> for
> >> >> >> me. This is not a bug, but just a missing feature.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> 9. Sometimes if I press Control+Home in the editing area in order
> >> >> >> to
> >> >> >> move
> >> >> >> the cursor at the beginning of the file, Jaws tells me "File, Edit,
> >> >> >> Code... the name of all the menus.
> >> >> >> It seems that this happends because Jaws can't discover where is
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> PC
> >> >> >> cursor after pressing Control+S then escape. Now I can press the up
> >> >> >> or
> >> >> >> down arrows, control+Tab or shift+Control+tab, but nothing
> >> >> >> happends.
> >> >> >> Jaws
> >> >> >> doesn't speak anything. I think I need to restart Commodo.
> >> >> >> If I try to use the Jaws cursor and I move it faster up or down,
> >> >> >> Jaws
> >> >> >> doesn't speak anything.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> 10. I've tried to delete the text word by word with
> >> >> >> control+backspace.
> >> >> >> The words are deleted, but Jaws doesn't speak those words.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> 11. I've tried to read the status bar of the window with the Jaws
> >> >> >> cursor,
> >> >> >> because it is too much text there and I want to see the line and
> >> >> >> column
> >> >> >> number of the cursor, but I can't read the status bar neither,
> >> >> >> because
> >> >> >> each time I press Control+left or right arrows, a menu seems to be
> >> >> >> opened.
> >> >> >> Now I've tried to see what's in that menu, because at a certain
> >> >> >> moment
> >> >> >> when moving the Jaws cursor with control+left or right, I hear
> >> >> >> "menu".
> >> >> >> I've tried then using up and down arrows. I have also tried first
> >> >> >> switching to the PC cursor, then using up or down, but with no
> >> >> >> luck.
> >> >> >> After doing that, I couldn't continue to read the text written in
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> editing area. I couldn't even return to Outlook Express because I
> >> >> >> couldn't read anything in this message I write right now. So I
> >> >> >> needed
> >> >> >> to
> >> >> >> close Commodo a second time, then I was able to write you.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> 12. I've seen that message "minus 85 millions and something of 0"
> >> >> >> is
> >> >> >> read
> >> >> >> when using a combo box too. Too bad, especially that in combo boxes
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> real number of the list elements is not read at all.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> 13. In the "Find" dialog (Control+F), the buttons don't have a
> >> >> >> hotkey
> >> >> >> defined, or at least Jaws cannot detect it if using Shift+Num pad
> >> >> >> 5.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> 14. Even if I press Control+F or Control+H for replace, the Window
> >> >> >> that
> >> >> >> appear is always entitled "Find and replace". This can be confusing
> >> >> >> sometimes.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> 15. I've tried to change some preferences from the Edit menu, but
> >> >> >> some
> >> >> >> elements are not very accessible because the text that describes
> >> >> >> them
> >> >> >> are
> >> >> >> not read entirely.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> 16. After closing with Ok button that preferences window, now Jaws
> >> >> >> lost
> >> >> >> the focus again and I cannot read the text from the editor with the
> >> >> >> PC
> >> >> >> cursor. So I need to close and reopen Commodo once more.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> 17. I like that Commodo has F8 and shift+F8 for jumping to the
> >> >> >> previous
> >> >> >> and next subroutine, but this can be done so easy with a find for
> >> >> >> "sub
> >> >> >> "
> >> >> >> then jumping around with F3 and Shift+F3 which is better known. A
> >> >> >> helpful
> >> >> >> thing though. I hope it also offers the possibility of defining
> >> >> >> bookmarks.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> 18. Control+F8 for finding all functions could be nice if its
> >> >> >> interface
> >> >> >> would be better, but Jaws speaks so much garbage, that I would
> >> >> >> prefer
> >> >> >> to
> >> >> >> search the subroutines manually than in that list. And after
> >> >> >> displaying
> >> >> >> that list of functions (subroutines), I wasn't able to make it
> >> >> >> disappear
> >> >> >> with an escape, but I needed to choose a subroutine then press
> >> >> >> enter.
> >> >> >> Maybe the focus moved to that subroutine, but then I wasn't able to
> >> >> >> move
> >> >> >> the cursor from there, but first I needed to switch the focus to
> >> >> >> another
> >> >> >> application then come back.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> 19. I've saved a file and Jaws lost again the focus. I've pressed
> >> >> >> for
> >> >> >> a
> >> >> >> few times some keys like control+Tab and others I don't remember
> >> >> >> and
> >> >> >> Jaws
> >> >> >> read for me some checkboxes without names. I've even seen a list of
> >> >> >> files
> >> >> >> and I pressed enter on one of them and Commodo told me that there
> >> >> >> is
> >> >> >> no
> >> >> >> such a file and asked me if I want to create it. Ok, I understand I
> >> >> >> might
> >> >> >> have been doing something wrong, but I wanted to read again that
> >> >> >> dialog
> >> >> >> message but I couldn't do it and this is not ok.
> >> >> >> Jaws was not reading anything, so I have chosen that I don't want
> >> >> >> to
> >> >> >> create that file.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> 20. I couldn't see an easy way of defining more bookmarks like in
> >> >> >> TextPad
> >> >> >> and this feature is very important for me.
> >> >> >> I've seen other things like breakpoints and other things, but no
> >> >> >> hotkeys
> >> >> >> for creating a bookmark, deleting a bookmark, jumping to the
> >> >> >> previous
> >> >> >> and next bookmark, and deleting all the bookmarks.
> >> >> >> Isn't this possible with Commodo?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Anyway, as you might have seen, Commodo is very hard accessible at
> >> >> >> least
> >> >> >> with Jaws 6 without special scripts for it, but even if it can be
> >> >> >> made
> >> >> >> to
> >> >> >> be more accessible, it doesn't have some features other editors
> >> >> >> have.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Is Firefox same... "accessible"?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Octavian
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> __________
> >> >> >> View the list's information and change your settings at
> >> >> >> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> > __________
> >> >> > View the list's information and change your settings at
> >> >> > //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> __________
> >> >> View the list's information and change your settings at
> >> >> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
> >> >>
> >> > __________
> >> > View the list's information and change your settings at
> >> > //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
> >> >
> >>
> >> __________
> >> View the list's information and change your settings at
> >> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
> >>
> > __________
> > View the list's information and change your settings at
> > //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
> >
>
> __________
> View the list's information and change your settings at
> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>
__________
View the list's information and change your settings at
//www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
Other related posts:
