Re: Advice for a programmer losing vision?
- From: Dorene Cornwell <dorenefc@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:52:37 -0700
Hi Bill and all
First thanks for the question and all the resources that came up. I have an
old laptop that is way underpowered for anything current in Windows, but
maybe I will play around with linux.
Here are some notes from my experience with DNA lotto kicking in at about
the same age my dad had similar events. My central vision is a mess and I
have more vision on the periphery.
Screen reader vs enlarger: I use both but I am aware of different
limitations. I am not the most adept JAWS user and probably do things less
simply than would be possible. I use a screen enlarger at 4x and am REALLY
glad to be able to do that sometimes. However, I make different visual
mistakes. The screen enlarger can only show a fraction of the screen at the
time and I have more than once completely missed something on a screen
because of relying on the screen enlarger rather than reading the whole
screen. I also have holes in my visual field so there is a pretty high risk
of visual mistakes. Another downside: the screen enlarger lets me get away
with being lazy about learning some keyboard shortcuts. If you already use
emacs you may be less bothered by that risk than using Windows applications.
I still sometimes find it hard to orally parse sequences of things related
for instance to SQL queries.
Braille: I LOVE braille. I love being able to have a sense of the structure
of the words in an almost visual way. I also know other programmers who
really like Braille for editing code. Personally, even though I love
Braille, I am still slow and time to practice keeps getting crowded out. I
read a magazine that takes me all month here and there and that is faster
than previously. I think I might practice more if I had a mobile device, but
braille devices are expensive. If you decide to go that route, it might be
reasonable to expect your state agency to help you work with your employer
and have them help as a reasonable accommodation.
Your state rehab agency: a real resource, but with limitations. You probably
know technologies and aspects of the job market related to what you do
better than any rehab counselor is likely to, and if you focus on job
retention that should guide both sides. It took quite a bit of back and
forth for me to get to requests that the agency could help. It did not help
that I had a couple huge personal minefields besides vision loss going on.
The agency's computer training was kind of lame and I wound up mostly
training myself for what I need. I did learn a lot of helpful stuff about
the ADA and also just some different life adjustment points from sharing
experiences with my peers. I also found myself in class with some younger
folk where I could talk in informed ways about general workplace issues not
just blindness.
Mobility: this is a weird one and maybe off-topic. I still had a driver's
license when I first started talking to the WA rehab agency years ago. Three
years ago while I was a day student at their Orientation and Training Center
which your state might have an equivalent of, I made a list of all the times
in my life when my vision probably contributed to injuring myself. I know
that question was on their intake questionnaire and I have no idea what I
wrote, but no one probed at the time. Anyway, after I made the list, I
requested mobility training, but I really was not inclined toward what I
call the sleep shades religion. I also had to kind of push because everyone
figured I could get to their office on a bus fine so why did I think I
needed mobility training? They also did an evaluation that was kind of
silly: I have lived in Seattle not to far from the state agency offices for
years. I knew which directions the street numbers run. I knew which bus
routes stopped at the nearby bus stops. But the evaluator at least detected
that I looked down a lot. (I also tended to run into people which is
decidedly undesirable). Fortunately the agency was short-staffed so no one
insisted very hard on sleep shades training. I worked with a trainer about
some aspects of cane technique and now I use the cane off and on. I mention
all this because when I started using a white cane, a lot of back trouble
cleared up almost instantly. With the cane to find bad terrain and help
clear people out of my way, steer me around dogs and small children, I stand
up straighter, use my vision better for big stuff, and don't spend so much
time stooped over. I definitely use the cane differently than people with
less vision, but it really helps.
I program a lot less than I used to. I have always worked in fields which
were more data analysis and as I talked to different people, I learned a lot
of blind programmers wind up concentrating on the project definition rather
than only coding. Well, plenty of people do code, but the project
specification aspect has allowed me to do things I would not be able to do
because of continuing skill challenges.
Anyway, I hope these comments are helpful and help you find what will work
best for you.
Dorene Cornwell
Seattle WA
On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 12:19 PM, Jackie McBride <abletec@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Well, ESpeak & Festival are free--Cepstral isn't. But yeah, you're
> right--Cepstral does sound a whole lot better.
>
> On 6/15/09, Bill Cox <waywardgeek@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > Thanks, Jackie, and everyone for the replies.
> >
> > I have to say, it's a load off my shoulders knowing that many other
> > programmers succeed with visual impairment. I'm more adaptable than
> most,
> > and am pretty sure I'll do OK. The emacspeak project looks most
> promising
> > to me in my situation (long-time emacs hacker, with peripheral vision
> that
> > should work long-term). I'll be able to use apps I'm familiar with with
> > magnification sometimes (like skype). I'm having trouble installing any
> > speech synthesizer it works with on my Kubuntu 9.04 x64 system, though.
> > I'll post to the emacspeak list, and if I have to, I'll write some
> support
> > for other speech synthesis back-ends.
> >
> > Not that it's critical now, but if I'm going to bother writing a back-end
> > for emacspeak to support another speech synthesizer, which synthesizer
> would
> > you recommend? I've installed both festival and espeak. I've also
> listened
> > to demos of Cepstral, which sound much better to me.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Bill
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Jackie McBride <abletec@xxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi, Bill:
> >>
> >> 1st, I do know what you're going thru. It bites.
> >>
> >> U asked a question about whether u should use magnification or
> >> screenreader. generally speaking, the conventional wisdom has it that
> >> once you're at 5x magnification or above, productivity decreases to
> >> such a level that screenreading software should be employed. This is
> >> not to say that being able to zoom in on a particular spot might not
> >> be helpful, but that it takes so much time to navigate the screen
> >> using magnification that productivity suffers. It should also be noted
> >> that eyestrain using magnification software can result in headache &
> >> fatigue. Often, if system requirements permit, screenreading software
> >> & magnification can function together to create a more powerful
> >> solution than either technology alone.
> >>
> >> Regarding learning braille, there are a variety of factors to
> >> consider, including tactile sensitivity & desire to learn. I recommend
> >> it for those who can, but, for example, many w/diabetic
> >> retinopathy/neuropathy find it to be more frustrating than it's worth.
> >>
> >> I really suggest that u not only avail yourself of the resources on
> >> this list, which are considerable, but also contact your state
> >> vocational rehabilitation department/commission for the blind, as the
> >> case may be. They should surely be able to assist u, especially as it
> >> relates to learning braille. Also, Hadley School for the blind in
> >> Winnetka, IL, has braille courses, though I think u probably have to
> >> be legally blind in order to access those.
> >>
> >> Please let me know if u think I may be of further assistance.
> >>
> >> On 6/15/09, Haden Pike <haden.pike@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >> > The orca screen reader, part of gnome, supports magnification.
> >> >
> >> > Haden Pike
> >> > Email: haden.pike@xxxxxxxxx
> >> >
> >> > --------------------------------------------------
> >> > From: "Holdsworth, Lynn" <Lynn.Holdsworth@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 11:16 AM
> >> > To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > Subject: RE: Advice for a programmer losing vision?
> >> >
> >> >> And there must surely be a plethora of free and cheap screen
> >> >> magnification solutions for Linux. Anybody know anything about those?
> >> >>
> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Tyler
> >> >> Littlefield
> >> >> Sent: 15 June 2009 16:09
> >> >> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> Subject: Re: Advice for a programmer losing vision?
> >> >>
> >> >> Bill,
> >> >> Something you might check out is the speakup project found at:
> >> >> http://linux-speakup.org
> >> >> They have a mailling list, and a good community.
> >> >> Basically speakup is the community for one of the linux screen
> readers
> >> >> that is out, that uses espeak,flite,or festival.
> >> >> HTH,
> >> >>
> >> >> Thanks,
> >> >> Tyler Littlefield
> >> >> Web: tysdomain.com
> >> >> email: tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> My programs don't have bugs, they're called randomly added features.
> >> >>
> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> From: "Bill Cox" <waywardgeek@xxxxxxxxx>
> >> >> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 9:03 AM
> >> >> Subject: Re: Advice for a programmer losing vision?
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>> Thanks, Jim.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> It makes me feel a lot better to hear you say that. I've been here
> >> >>> before,
> >> >>> with the typing problem, and there wasn't much of any community at
> the
> >> >>
> >> >>> time
> >> >>> to help. Yes, I will most likely stay in the linux world, though I
> >> >> would
> >> >>> not rule out controlling linux boxes through cygwin bash shells and
> >> >> emacs
> >> >>> like I did before. I also hope to help with development of some of
> >> >> the
> >> >>> tools being used.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Bill
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 10:47 AM, Homme, James
> >> >>> <james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx>wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> Hi Bill,
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> You can definitely be productive as a programmer in your situation.
> >> >>>> According to me, you have come to the right place to ask these
> kinds
> >> >> of
> >> >>>> things. We have a lot of great people on this list. Do you want to
> >> >> stay
> >> >>>> in
> >> >>>> the Linux world?
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Thanks.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Jim
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> ----------
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Jim Homme, Usability Engineering.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> 412-544-1810.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Note: I will reply to email and voice mail within four hours.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> "Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> "Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people
> >> >> with
> >> >>>> talent.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> "Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> "Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> "Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent."
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> - Calvin Coolidge (1872-1933)
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> *From:* programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:
> >> >>>> programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *Bill Cox
> >> >>>> *Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2009 10:32 AM
> >> >>>> *To:* programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >>>> *Subject:* Advice for a programmer losing vision?
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Hi.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Sorry if you get a lot of first-time dumb posts, like this. I've
> got
> >> >> a
> >> >>>> rare genetic defect that's causing me to lose my central vision.
> >> >> It's a
> >> >>>> lot
> >> >>>> like macular degeneration, but I'm only 45 years old. I've been a
> >> >>>> programmer all my life, and have succeeded in dealing with
> disability
> >> >>>> before. I could not type for three years. I mostly program in C
> on
> >> >>>> Linux.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> What tools should I learn, what forums should I join, and what
> skills
> >> >>>> should I develop to stay a productive programmer? I'm very good at
> >> >>>> building
> >> >>>> custom environments, which I did when I couldn't type. For
> example,
> >> >>>> should
> >> >>>> I bother with Braille, and which screen readers are best for mail,
> >> >> web
> >> >>>> browsing (and which browser?), and controlling shells and emacs? I
> >> >>>> expect
> >> >>>> to have peripheral vision for a long time. Do programmers with
> only
> >> >>>> peripheral vision fare better reading text up close, or using
> screen
> >> >>>> readers?
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Thanks,
> >> >>>> Bill
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> ------------------------------
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> >> --
> >> Change the world--1 deed at a time
> >> Jackie McBride
> >> Check out my homepage at:
> >> www.abletec.serverheaven.net
> >> & please join my fight against breast cancer
> >> <http://teamacs.acsevents.org/site/TR?px=1790196&pg=personal&fr_id=3489
> >
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>
>
> --
> Change the world--1 deed at a time
> Jackie McBride
> Check out my homepage at:
> www.abletec.serverheaven.net
> & please join my fight against breast cancer
> <http://teamacs.acsevents.org/site/TR?px=1790196&pg=personal&fr_id=3489>
> __________
> View the list's information and change your settings at
> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>
>
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