[lit-ideas] Re: Sacrifice
- From: "Mirembe Nantongo" <nantongo@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 18:26:57 +0100
Hi Marlena: Doesn't sacrifice lie, like beauty, in the eye of the beholder?
I mean does the sacrifier really trot around going, ho, watch me make my
next sacrifice? It seems to me they (sacrifiers or whatever the active
participle is) mostly just go ahead and do what they think should be done at
the moment ie what makes them feel good, or, failing that, feel better. It
seems to me that any analysis of sacrifice would have to center on how it is
seen from the outside rather than how it is lived from the inside. Or so it
seems to me, she said in a muffled voice from inside a welter of fish
sticks, Wild Thornberrys, Arabic adverbs and the Science project from Hell.
All best, Mirembe
----- Original Message -----
From: <Eternitytime1@xxxxxxx>
To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2005 7:44 AM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Sacrifice
>
> Hi,
> I've been pondering for some time the concept of this 'sacred ideal' and
> the
> thought that it is one's country that leads one to War and sacrifice.
>
> I'm not sure that it is the 'only' sacred ideal which leads one to that
> end--there surely are other sacred ideals which do the same?
>
> This interests me as one of the themes which is going to be discussed in
> the
> next several weeks (actually beginning the end of February and going on
> for
> 4-6 weeks--I have the advertisement in the car...) is that of Sacrifice.
> Because it is being run as an intergenerational discussion group, I have
> been
> considering whether or not to attend with my child. (However <g> it is
> on a
> Sunday evening and that is not a good time for us to be doing anything
> but
> getting ready for the week, as I have discovered...)
>
> The discussion group will be discussing the concept of 'sacrifice' within
> the context (primarily) of The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe (by CS
> Lewis, of
> course) and will use the PBS videos as well as parts of the books to
> discuss
> and come up with answers to the questions. I have no idea who has
> created
> this curriculum or if it was dreamed up by someone in the congregation
> (there
> is a new minister at that particular church--and though once upon a time
> it
> was a moderately leaning church, it has not been so for some time--I'm
> not
> sure if there are any in my suburb <g> as we get postcards at least once
> a week
> of a new 'Bible-believing' church meeting in a school until their
> building
> program takes off...Granted, this suburb is one of the fastest growing
> ones in
> my area but it just seems odd that there is so little variety in terms of
> types of churches...but I digress...)
>
> Sacrifce. There are so many ways we learn to do so--or is it something
> with
> and inherent in human nature which is then directed by whatever aspect of
> society or culture the person ends up living within? (bad bad sentence,
> I
> know...)
>
> I think of those I know who often 'sacrifice' themselves for someone
> else.
> And, they do--and sometimes it is not the best, even, for the one to whom
> they give that gift of whatever it is they are doing/giving/etc.
> Sometimes they
> have jumped into a pit to boost the other person out and then are stuck
> in
> the pit on their own while the original person goes on his/her way.
>
> I'm sure we all know people who are like that...(Most people I know are
> NOT
> like that--but what makes the ones who are 'different' ... )
>
> and so, what happens, then to those who go to War and focus on the Sacred
> Ideal as was mentioned? Are they the same people who we know in our
> everyday
> lives who end up joining the military and focusing on the patriotic ideas
> that
> are part of every nation?
>
> What about those for whom the idea is more esoteric--but it, too, demands
> a
> sacrifice? Are they are 'wired' the same way?
>
> I have a friend who just returned from Iraq this past week. He's a retired
> military officer who re-entered the military in order to keep as many of
> 'our
> boys' safe as possible. (He did not agree with the war and was appalled
> with
> the whole thing--but at the same time had fought in Vietnam and was
> afraid
> that things would turn out as they did...) He said he used to wonder the
> same
> sorts of things as were written in the virility and slaughter--I read him
> a
> little of it...and is, I think, able to both believe in that Sacred Ideal
> yet
> wonder about it even as he walks towards it...and wonders why he [and
> others]
> are doing so...
>
> Is it simply something we have inside -- and with training it grows (as in
> a
> 'total society' as the military) or with training it might even fade--as
> with
> our selfishness which kind of balances it out [thinking of how I hear
> people
> being told not to 'go overboard' or the people who have scolded me when my
> child and I were making zillions of trips to the other side of the state
> for a
> couple of years in order to assist someone(s). It was, truly, not the
> best
> thing for either of us--but we made that choice in order to assist those
> who
> had Need. And, they did and we really did affect the outcome in a
> positive
> way. Hugely. We chose...but were scolded and I got to wondering about
> the
> values my 'friends' placed on both 'family' and 'friendship'--for would
> they
> be 'there' for me if *I* had need? Or my child?
>
> Or, thinking of 'sacrifice'....is it a 'fairness' piece that is within us
> as
> we give to those who have given to us--and if The Country is the one who
> has
> provided us with home, health, and the freedom to pursue happiness--we
> want
> to both 'give back' to our country as well as make sure that Others get
> to
> experience it...? I know that the one who my child and I assisted drove
> overnight just to see (primarily) my child for a few hours over the
> holidays (we
> had an odd holiday season in some respects)--and I do not think that would
> have
> ever happened had we not done what we did. But, that person who 'gave
> back'--has a huge fairness piece within...
>
> I think, as well, of those groups which 'teach' of sacrifice, of
> 'service',
> of caring for the Other, for Friendship, for Family...
>
> Why do we honor someone who jumps into a lake to save another--when that
> person who was rescued lives and the person doing the rescuing dies? (I
> think
> of the scout magazine which we get every month which often will share a
> rescue
> above and beyond the call of duty...and thus a subculture of boys [the
> military loves them btw] learns about 'honor' and 'sacrifice'...But are
> they drawn
> to scouting and its ideals because they are that type or are they taught
> those ideals as they go through the program? [or is it those of us who
> are
> parents who value those values and so teach them...]
>
> Is it 'nature' or 'nurture' which leads a person to that Sacred Ideal of
> Sacrifice...? Is that sacrifical Sacred Ideal one which is within--or is
> it
> really not the sacrifice but a 'fairness' piece? But, how to start that
> fairness without one side or the other (or nation/person) making the
> creation of a
> situation (nation) or a sacrifice (more a person would do this perhaps
> than a
> nation?)
>
> Musing and apologizing for the jumbled thoughts--but sharing them 'cause
> they won't go away (so make the sacrifice and answer me <g>),
> Marlena in Missouri
>
>
> In a message dated 2/2/2005 9:21:45 PM Central Standard Time,
> libraryofsocialscience@xxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:
>
> "Now that you have entered upon the service of your Country,
> you must proceed to serve her with all your heart and with all your soul
> and with all your mind and with all your strength."
>
> and
>
> "Similar expressions of commitment and devotion were common among
> soldiers
> of all nations. Shortly before his death, Frenchman Robert Dubarle wrote
> of
> the "glorious
> privilege of sacrificing oneself, voluntarily. Let us try, without
> complaining too
> much to offer our sacrifice to our country and to place the love of
> fatherland above our own grief."
>
>
>
>
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