[lit-ideas] Re: Sacrifice
- From: Robert.Paul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Robert Paul)
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: 13 Feb 2005 14:00:39 PST
Eric writes:
So what is irrational for the individual is often quite rational for the
group...and yet there are no individuals without groups and no groups
without individual members of that group.
and
In fact that's a serious objection to the notion of "individual
sacrifice." Individuals only exist by consent of the group and vice
versa. To speak of irrational self-sacrifice is to view that sacrifice
only from the perspective of the individual. Yet individuals do not
exist by themselves, but only in the context of groups.
*I think that this confuses the sociological fact that it is possible to
classify almost anyone as belonging to _some_ group or other with the contingent
fact that sometimes one sacrifices oneself, even to the extent of giving up
one's life, for the sake of the good of some group (or for what one perceives as
the good of some group).
*The argument would seem to be this.
(1) Everyone belongs to some group.
(2) So, everything so-called individual sacrifice is done for the sake
of some
group.
*This is clearly such a non-sequitor that it cannot have been Eric's argument;
therefore, I must not have understood what he wants to say. But I'm at a loss to
say what he did want to say--obviously. (If this argument went through it would
I think equally show that _everything_ one did was for the sake of the good or
the harm done to some group.)
*In 1992 I told the College that I would teach half-time until 1996, and then I
would retire. I did this for a number of reasons (I think that most human
actions are done for more than one reason, more than one 'motive'). One of my
motives though was to open up a tenure track slot--the Department at the time
had none--which I had good reason to believe would be filled by a young
colleague, then on a visiting appointment, whom I thought we ought to keep. The
position did open, and three years later my young colleague got tenure. Only he
and I knew of this. It wasn't, I should say, my 'primary' motive/reason; there
were others--my health at the time wasn't great, etc.
*Now, did I make this decision in order to (a) maximize my own pleasure (b)
bring about some good for the Reed philosophy department (c) help my young
colleague? Certainly my decision resulted in some good for the Department; for
my colleague; and for me. But which was _the_ reason? I would not have decided
to teach half-time for a while and then retire when I did if it had not been
that I believed my doing so would result in (c). And of course I couldn't have
helped the Department if there hadn't been a philosophy department to help.
(Someone outside the Department could have done something to aid it, too, a
benefactor or the Federal government.)
*Forget my motives for a moment. I could not now sort them out neatly myself.
This small sacrifice on my had as _one_ object, the good of another. Moreover,
while it is true that I could not have helped the Department _in this case_ had
I not been a part of it, it is _not_ true that I could not have helped it had I
not been a member of it. (Steve Jobs '76, might someday endow a chair in
philosophy at Reed, even though he is not and was never part of it.)* It would
be a dodge, I think, to keep expanding the brackets and say that Jobs would
_really_ be helping the College, or humanity, or rational beings in general).
*I've tried to give an example of a mild sacrifice--less fraught than giving up
my place in a lifeboat; throwing myself on a grenade; or handing a child to a
fireman on a ladder just as a fire engulfs me--which although only possible
because I was part of a group, which doesn't need to be understood in terms of
acting _for_ the group, even though the 'group' did, I think, benefit--as did my
young colleague and as did I.
Robert Paul
The Reed Institute
----------------------
That Jobs should endow a chair in philosophy at Reed is extremely unlikely;
although it is logically possible.
------------------------------------------------------------------
To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off,
digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html
Other related posts:
