[lit-ideas] Re: Londonistan (part one)
- From: "Simon Ward" <sedward@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:24:18 -0000
> Simon: Don't forget how many millions of Europeans
> died in both world wars. Europe, continental
> Europe especially, has an understadable phobia
> about militarisation and wars. Can you blame them?
>
> Eric: Fine to have a phobia if it means not to
> return to fascism. Not fine to have a phobia if it
> means putting the military onus on an ally that is
> so widely resented.
Yet only resented in recent years. At least on the pervading scale. Before
Bush, you could always hear the odd 'bloody American' quote, just as you'd hear
one about the bloody Australians, but since Bush the intensity has got far
worse. Unfortunately, the perceived hatred of the Bush administration has been
extended to the US in general - yet I find it interesting to hear Americans
feeling the need to apologise for their own government. To paraphrase one
online conversation I had:
American: What do you think of American politics?
Me: Don't. I wouldn't want to insult you.
American: But I already feel insulted by American politics.
But I don't believe resentment is the issue here. Unless the Neocons retain
power, resentment will subside. The US, however, will remain top dog and it's
how they use that position that matters. Defending interests, whether
geographic or economic, is one thing, but seeking to attain an interest through
military action is entirely another. Many Europeans believe that the 'War on
Terror' is more about empire building than about defence. It's not something
they would subscribe to. But if US policy changed to the self-defence position,
and, by necessity, lead to a corresponding increase in European defence
budgets, I'm not sure there would be too many complaints.
I go back to the matter of choice. Being Top Dog is a policy decision. Change
the policy and you'd lose the boasting rights, but probably make a few friends.
Simon: It's interesting that the blame is being
passed across. As I remember it, European
intelligence organisations gave the US countless
warnings in the Summer before 9/11. . . . . Yes
Europe has a Muslim population, yes there are a
small minority of extremists amongst them, but
there a lot more in Pakistan living under a
military dictatorship that the US counts as an ally.
Eric: You misunderstand me. I'm not talking blame
to you, I'm talking about perceived threat. First,
remember that "Londonistan" is a name given by the
French counterterrorist people, not by the Yanks.
The sheer numbers (and until recently) the
relatively little cross-border oversight of the
Muslim diaspora combined with poor national
assimilation strategies created a potential,
ongoing security problem. I'm sure you will agree
that our shared concern should be on fixing
problems (if they are indeed problems) rather than
on assigning blame.
Most of the US counterterror online poobahs, print
pundits, opinion toffs, and televised goliards
view Europe as the locus of future attacks on the
US. Large unassimilated populations to hide
extremists, easy access to US via customs and
jet...mostly our worry of course, but you did have
your tube terror.
What matters, I believe, is the extent of the problem. Teemu's post makes the
point that the extent of the problem has been exaggerated. I would agree. Yet
the existence of the problem - a small minority of extremists willing to spend
their lives - is sufficient to warrant fixing it. But fixing it, through legal
adjustments such as immigration policy, is only part of it. Attitudes are
dictated by world affairs, not by the ease or otherwise of crossing borders. In
this respect, I go back to my consistent point to Lawrence, that it is within
the powers of the US to change pervading attitudes through adjustments in
policy.
Yes we had out tube terror, but we Brits are on the whole stoic about it.
London got going again within a day or so and we didn't declare war on Leeds.
Regards
Simon
Thoroughly distracted by 'The Motion to Censure the President'
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