Re: JFW/PROGRAMMING

Enough already with this thread.  It has drifted completely off topic.

Gerald 


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Cy Selfridge 
  To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
  Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2011 6:04 PM
  Subject: RE: JFW/PROGRAMMING


  George,

  One of my Exes was a very good Optacon user and used it at the Pentagon when 
we had our computer consulting business. The terminals at the pentagon had what 
we called a “bug screen” over the glass on the monitor to prevent any 
possibility of someone “listening” to what was being displayed. They had spooks 
in the parking lot above the WWMCCS site to see if they could detect any 
electronic leakage coming from the sub basement.

  The foolish part of this is that in order to be able to do any programming 
for the Pentagon one had to have top secret clearance.

  Now, if you had top secret clearance then anything you had printed would have 
each page stamped “top secret”. You know how long a COBOL listing is, right? 
Well, if your work was stamped as top secret then you had to shred each page. 
They provided a shredder which would take one page at a time. If your listing 
was a couple of hundred pages then it would take you forever to get the job 
done.

  Almost every programmer would put their old listings in their briefcase when 
they left and throw the listing away in the hotel trash. (penny wise and pound 
foolish to the max)

  Yup, those were the days?

  Cy 

   

  From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of 
George Marshall
  Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2011 3:46 PM
  To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  Subject: Re: JFW/PROGRAMMING

   

  Cy:

  I used it untill computers with speech, had special lense  that fit on a 
track over the terminal screen. I was never that good with it, but better than 
my brail skills.

  George R. Marshall
  marshall.geoma4@xxxxxxxxx

    ----- Original Message ----- 

    From: Cy Selfridge 

    To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 

    Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2011 5:19 PM

    Subject: RE: JFW/PROGRAMMING

     

    Bob,

    The Opticon is (was) the ultimate solution for anyone who could use it.

    Too bad it went down the tubes.

    Cy, The Anasazi

     

    From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf 
Of Bob W
    Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2011 10:35 AM
    To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Subject: Re: JFW/PROGRAMMING

     

    Dave.

    I'm afraid I missed that particular piece of equipment but it really sounds 
interesting.

     

    In the early eighties there were two approaches to interpreting visual 
data: the hardware solution (including the frank audio data, the IBM talking 
terminal and, to my mind the ultimate solution, the optacon. Then there were 
the software solutions exemplified by jaws (Hentor-Joyce) and Window-eyes 
(gwmicro) and the artic speech programs.

     

    Sometimes I wish the hardware guys would have won the battles.

     

    We wouldn't have to push websites and software developers to be accessible. 
Captias would be no problem. And a myriad other problems could have been solved 
if we truly found a hardware solution.

     

    But we didn't. and they are still problems. 

     

    Bob

     

    "Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being 
governed by those who are dumber." Aristotle 

      ----- Original Message ----- 

      From: Dave Durber 

      To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 

      Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2011 10:30 AM

      Subject: Re: JFW/PROGRAMMING

       

      Back in the 1980's, I remember a friend using a piece of equipment, 
called "Frank AudioData"

       

      It was a full size keyboard with built-in speech.  It had two sliders.

       

      One slider, ran along the top of the keyboard which moved the AudioData's 
cursor left and right across the line.  It used tones to indicate space 
characters and other characters as you moved the slider.

       

      The vertical slider ran down the left side of the keyboard and was used 
to move the AudioData's cursor up and down by a line.  As you moved the slider 
down the screen, it used ascending tones.  As you moved the slider up the 
screen it used descending tones.

       

      On top of the two sliders, there was a button which you press to move the 
PC/application cursor to the location of the AudioData's cursor.

       

      In addition, there were volume and pitch controls.  There may have been a 
control for increasing and decreasing the speed of the voice, but I cannot 
remember if there was or was not.

       

      Sincerely:

       

      Dave durber

       

      ----- Original Message ----- 

        From: Bob W 

        To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 

        Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 10:35 PM

        Subject: Re: JFW/PROGRAMMING

         

        Yeah, I remember those beauties. You had speech from the moment you 
turned the power on. 

        They weren't very versatile but they were quite a work horse.

        Don't remember what they were called.

        I always wished someone would build something like that for pcs. 

         

        Bob

         

        "Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being 
governed by those who are dumber." Aristotle 

          ----- Original Message ----- 

          From: George Marshall 

          To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 

          Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 10:39 AM

          Subject: Re: JFW/PROGRAMMING

           

          Tom:

          I am surprised IBM didn't give you one of there terminals with 
speech. I also programmed on IBM 360,370 and 9000's. I think about 1982 IBM 
developed a terminal with speech, had a numeric like pad attached with a cord 
used to control reading of the screen.

          George R. Marshall
          marshall.geoma4@xxxxxxxxx

            ----- Original Message ----- 

            From: Tom Lange 

            To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 

            Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 11:51 PM

            Subject: Re: JFW/PROGRAMMING

             

            Hi,

            I wish I'd known about JAWS back in the Eighties, it might have 
made life easier for me in some respects.  I did mainframe programming for IBM 
from 1978 to 1994 in a VM environment, programming using the APL programming 
language up until around 1987 or so.  After that I programmed using Rexx, which 
was very English-like.  

             

            I didn't know about screen reading solutions for the PC until 1994, 
so all through that time I was at IBM, I used an Optacon to read the screen.  
That was actually pretty cool, if a bit inefficient.

             

            Tom

             

              ----- Original Message ----- 

              From: Bob W 

              To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 

              Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 8:20 AM

              Subject: Re: JFW/PROGRAMMING

               

              Hi Prakash.

               

              I am retired now, but was a mainframe programmer from the early 
seventies to the late 1990s. I used jaws from the early 80s to my retirement. I 
don't think I could have done programming without it.

               

              What you are proposing--going from a visual programmer to a 
nonvisual programmer--is a daunting, but not impossible, challenge.

               

              I suspect that you do not know Braille. Knowledge of Braille and 
an 80-cell display would be a great tool to have in your arsenal. You don't 
need to learn literary Braille, or even grade two Braille (though this might be 
helpful. But, I would suggest that you emphasize learning computer Braille, 
which in some ways is superior to literary Braille.

               

              As I said earlier, your challenges may seem daunting, but they 
can also be fun, and they may enhance your creativity.

               

              Good luck, and when you run into problems, this list is a great 
place to seek answers.

               

              Bob

               

               

               


              A learning experience is one of those things that says, 'You know 
that thing you just did? Don't do that.' Douglas Adams  

                ----- Original Message ----- 

                From: john.falter 

                To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 

                Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 11:04 PM

                Subject: Re: JFW/PROGRAMMING

                 

                I programmed in assembly language and Cobol for 8 years using 
JAWS..

                 

                  ----- Original Message ----- 

                  From: PRAKASH P 

                  To: JFW@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 

                  Cc: PRAKASH P 

                  Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 10:42 AM

                  Subject: JFW/PROGRAMMING

                   

                  I HAVE RECENTLY  COME TO A POINT WHERE I CANNOT DO ANYTHING 
VISUALLY ON THE COMPUTER SCREEN. 

                  I HAVE BEEN USING zOOMtEXT AUDIO  EFFECTIVELY UNTIL NOW. But 
now I am told JFW  is the way to go. 

                   

                  Can someone give  me a good  view/opinion of how 
effective/efficient would it b to do programming for a living with or without 
JFW. 

                   

                  I have 20 years of programming experience with MS 
environments being the  latest.  I am able to read all ctooll tip  based text  
and the program text itself  but  not sure if I can  compete with 

                  The visually   enhanced set.  I know I have much learning to 
do but I would like  a seasoned person to give  a sense of whats possible. 

                  I am a good learner if not a speedy one. 

                   

                  I am trying to  figure out if I should or should not give up 
on serious implementation responsibilities. 

                   

                  Thanks for any and all  input  I can get. 

                   

                  Prakash

                   

                   

                   

                  Prakash

                   

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