Re: JFW/PROGRAMMING
- From: "Gerald Levy" <bwaylimited@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2011 18:25:00 -0400
Enough already with this thread. It has drifted completely off topic.
Gerald
----- Original Message -----
From: Cy Selfridge
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2011 6:04 PM
Subject: RE: JFW/PROGRAMMING
George,
One of my Exes was a very good Optacon user and used it at the Pentagon when
we had our computer consulting business. The terminals at the pentagon had what
we called a “bug screen” over the glass on the monitor to prevent any
possibility of someone “listening” to what was being displayed. They had spooks
in the parking lot above the WWMCCS site to see if they could detect any
electronic leakage coming from the sub basement.
The foolish part of this is that in order to be able to do any programming
for the Pentagon one had to have top secret clearance.
Now, if you had top secret clearance then anything you had printed would have
each page stamped “top secret”. You know how long a COBOL listing is, right?
Well, if your work was stamped as top secret then you had to shred each page.
They provided a shredder which would take one page at a time. If your listing
was a couple of hundred pages then it would take you forever to get the job
done.
Almost every programmer would put their old listings in their briefcase when
they left and throw the listing away in the hotel trash. (penny wise and pound
foolish to the max)
Yup, those were the days?
Cy
From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
George Marshall
Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2011 3:46 PM
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: JFW/PROGRAMMING
Cy:
I used it untill computers with speech, had special lense that fit on a
track over the terminal screen. I was never that good with it, but better than
my brail skills.
George R. Marshall
marshall.geoma4@xxxxxxxxx
----- Original Message -----
From: Cy Selfridge
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2011 5:19 PM
Subject: RE: JFW/PROGRAMMING
Bob,
The Opticon is (was) the ultimate solution for anyone who could use it.
Too bad it went down the tubes.
Cy, The Anasazi
From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Bob W
Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2011 10:35 AM
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: JFW/PROGRAMMING
Dave.
I'm afraid I missed that particular piece of equipment but it really sounds
interesting.
In the early eighties there were two approaches to interpreting visual
data: the hardware solution (including the frank audio data, the IBM talking
terminal and, to my mind the ultimate solution, the optacon. Then there were
the software solutions exemplified by jaws (Hentor-Joyce) and Window-eyes
(gwmicro) and the artic speech programs.
Sometimes I wish the hardware guys would have won the battles.
We wouldn't have to push websites and software developers to be accessible.
Captias would be no problem. And a myriad other problems could have been solved
if we truly found a hardware solution.
But we didn't. and they are still problems.
Bob
"Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being
governed by those who are dumber." Aristotle
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Durber
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2011 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: JFW/PROGRAMMING
Back in the 1980's, I remember a friend using a piece of equipment,
called "Frank AudioData"
It was a full size keyboard with built-in speech. It had two sliders.
One slider, ran along the top of the keyboard which moved the AudioData's
cursor left and right across the line. It used tones to indicate space
characters and other characters as you moved the slider.
The vertical slider ran down the left side of the keyboard and was used
to move the AudioData's cursor up and down by a line. As you moved the slider
down the screen, it used ascending tones. As you moved the slider up the
screen it used descending tones.
On top of the two sliders, there was a button which you press to move the
PC/application cursor to the location of the AudioData's cursor.
In addition, there were volume and pitch controls. There may have been a
control for increasing and decreasing the speed of the voice, but I cannot
remember if there was or was not.
Sincerely:
Dave durber
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob W
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 10:35 PM
Subject: Re: JFW/PROGRAMMING
Yeah, I remember those beauties. You had speech from the moment you
turned the power on.
They weren't very versatile but they were quite a work horse.
Don't remember what they were called.
I always wished someone would build something like that for pcs.
Bob
"Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being
governed by those who are dumber." Aristotle
----- Original Message -----
From: George Marshall
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 10:39 AM
Subject: Re: JFW/PROGRAMMING
Tom:
I am surprised IBM didn't give you one of there terminals with
speech. I also programmed on IBM 360,370 and 9000's. I think about 1982 IBM
developed a terminal with speech, had a numeric like pad attached with a cord
used to control reading of the screen.
George R. Marshall
marshall.geoma4@xxxxxxxxx
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Lange
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 11:51 PM
Subject: Re: JFW/PROGRAMMING
Hi,
I wish I'd known about JAWS back in the Eighties, it might have
made life easier for me in some respects. I did mainframe programming for IBM
from 1978 to 1994 in a VM environment, programming using the APL programming
language up until around 1987 or so. After that I programmed using Rexx, which
was very English-like.
I didn't know about screen reading solutions for the PC until 1994,
so all through that time I was at IBM, I used an Optacon to read the screen.
That was actually pretty cool, if a bit inefficient.
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob W
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 8:20 AM
Subject: Re: JFW/PROGRAMMING
Hi Prakash.
I am retired now, but was a mainframe programmer from the early
seventies to the late 1990s. I used jaws from the early 80s to my retirement. I
don't think I could have done programming without it.
What you are proposing--going from a visual programmer to a
nonvisual programmer--is a daunting, but not impossible, challenge.
I suspect that you do not know Braille. Knowledge of Braille and
an 80-cell display would be a great tool to have in your arsenal. You don't
need to learn literary Braille, or even grade two Braille (though this might be
helpful. But, I would suggest that you emphasize learning computer Braille,
which in some ways is superior to literary Braille.
As I said earlier, your challenges may seem daunting, but they
can also be fun, and they may enhance your creativity.
Good luck, and when you run into problems, this list is a great
place to seek answers.
Bob
A learning experience is one of those things that says, 'You know
that thing you just did? Don't do that.' Douglas Adams
----- Original Message -----
From: john.falter
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 11:04 PM
Subject: Re: JFW/PROGRAMMING
I programmed in assembly language and Cobol for 8 years using
JAWS..
----- Original Message -----
From: PRAKASH P
To: JFW@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: PRAKASH P
Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 10:42 AM
Subject: JFW/PROGRAMMING
I HAVE RECENTLY COME TO A POINT WHERE I CANNOT DO ANYTHING
VISUALLY ON THE COMPUTER SCREEN.
I HAVE BEEN USING zOOMtEXT AUDIO EFFECTIVELY UNTIL NOW. But
now I am told JFW is the way to go.
Can someone give me a good view/opinion of how
effective/efficient would it b to do programming for a living with or without
JFW.
I have 20 years of programming experience with MS
environments being the latest. I am able to read all ctooll tip based text
and the program text itself but not sure if I can compete with
The visually enhanced set. I know I have much learning to
do but I would like a seasoned person to give a sense of whats possible.
I am a good learner if not a speedy one.
I am trying to figure out if I should or should not give up
on serious implementation responsibilities.
Thanks for any and all input I can get.
Prakash
Prakash
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