P.S. The word that "situation" is standing in for in the original is
actually "predicament," and it's not strange to say you can sympathize
with
someone's predicament, because there's an implication in "predicament"
that
someone's in a difficult position that almost certainly involves having
bad
feelings about it, and that those feelings are part of the predicament as
they make it difficult to decide what to do. Hope that's clear? So that
works, sympathizing with the predicament, but it's the biggest stretch
that
can be made and gotten away with.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Yardbird" <yardbird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 10:15 AM
Subject: Re: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode
We can be empathetic with someone, meaning able to imaginatively share
their
feelings. But we can only say we're sympathetic to their plight, or more
properly, to their consternation (provide preferred synonym if desired)
*about* their plight. The plight is the literal situation, however
harrowing
it may be. You can't sympathize with a situation.
Now, I know that people speak all kinds of ways and however they do, they
feel it works for them. So, each to his or her own. Just saying how the
mechanism actually goes together according to the assembly instructions.
:-)
From: "Gene" <gwilson@xxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 8:44 AM
Subject: RE: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode
I am empathetic to your plight. I frequently have the same trouble here.
I'm embarrassed to admit I use the "grammar and spelling checker". Oh
well,
this, too, shall pass.
Have a great day.
-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Peter Holdstock
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 8:21 AM
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode
Yes a bit scary to say my first language is English and I have an A-Level
in
it. Seem to be having a problem lately where I type phonetically even
though
I know how to spell. What my brain thinks seems to be different to what my
fingers do.
Peter
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Gene" <gwilson@xxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 3:44 PM
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode
Peter:
Whether not "whever". (LOL)
-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf
Of Peter Holdstock
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 6:19 AM
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode
I think those people who don't understand the problem with JAWS going
straight in to forms mode are missing the point.
A sighted user, despite being placed in the edit field can still look
around
the web page for the content they need.
A JAWS user uses quick navigation keys to look around the site as a
sighted
person would. The quick navigation keys do not work whilst in forms mode
so
therefore you cannot quickly move around the site without having to go
out
of forms mode first.
The most sensible place to begin on a page is at the top then the user
can
decide where they want to go.
Also, in Google, yes it is safe to assume you are in the edit field, but
not
all websites put you in the search box, but some put you in the user id
box,
and others put you straight in to the password field if the user box is
already inputted.
Many edit fields do not have sufficient labels attached to them for you
to
know what they are wanting you to input, and so it can be difficult to
know
whever you need to input the user id, password, search term or other
information (although I realise this is for web developers to get in to
the
habit of doing putting better labels on forms).-------------------------
How many times have you gone to use quick navigation not realising that
JAWS
has gone in to auto forms mode and ended up entering text instead.
It has been pointed out that you can turn autoforms mode off. But I love
autoforms, and just because I don't want to be put straight in to an edit
fieold, doesn't mean I don't want to use auto forms mode for navigation.
I'm happy to be placed at the first edit box on a site loading, but I
think
on that one occasion, JAWS shouldn't put you in forms mode, but perhaps
give
you the usual message about pressing enter to go in to forms
mode.-------------------------
Peter
From: "Bissett, Tom" <tom.bissett@xxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 2:27 PM
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode
But google chooses to put your cursor on the search edit box and that is
it. If you have a problem with that then complain to google.
Tom Bissett
BMO Financial Group
Technology and Operations
Integrated Client Solutions
Tel: (416) 549-6514
E-Mail tom.bissett@xxxxxxx
-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of DJ
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 8:43 PM
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode
I disagree. The first thing I do at Google isn't always type in the
edit box. I sometimes go to the Maps link, or some other area. So
searching isn't the only thing on people's minds when they visit Google.
-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Rick Harmon
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 12:28 PM
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode
No, if the primary thing you do on a page is immediately use an edit
field such as in the case of google then the focus is on the edit field.
I do believe this to be proper design of the webpage and nothing of FS
doing at all.
Also it has nothing to do with web designers hijacking us jaws users at
all.
Most of these web page designers have no idea what jaws even is.
Rick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Yardbird" <yardbird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 12:18 PM
Subject: Re: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode
But Peter,
I'm not sure from what perspective you're saying this about page design.
When a Web page loads for a sighted user not using a screen reader,
there is not a focus issue or the page capturing the mouse pointer or a
cursor of some sort and jumping anywhere. The page simply loads, the
person sees all of it, glances to where they want to look, and reads.
Or, if they want to use an edit field, they see it and then put the
mouse pointer on it. They aren't captured the way our Jaws focus is
hijacked when a page loads and takes us straight to an edit field.
So do you mean that Web page designers have deliberately coded something
into edit fields in many cases that they know will attract the Jaws
focus?
Or is this rather something that FS designs into the way Jaws sees the
page as it loads? Or some combination of these two things? See what I
mean?
designes JasewJaww
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Holdstock" <peterholdstock@xxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 9:05 AM
Subject: Re: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode
Yes you can design the web page so that it jumps the user straight to a
field, and yes it will be because of that design as to why it happens
with
some sites and not with others.
I think that JAWS should initially treat the edit field it first jumps
to as
the page loads, in the same way as it treats form fields when you use
the
quick navigation keys.
Peter
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Yardbird" <yardbird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 4:20 PM
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode
Hi Peter and all,
It occurs to me that the reason this inconvenient forms mode thing is
happening when some Web pages load is that for reasons I'm not
sophisticated
enough to understand, the Jaws focus is sometimes drawn to the first
edit
field it sees as the page loads. As everyone knows, this doesn't
happen
with
every page, not even a lot of pages that have search functions not far
from
the top of the page. The New York Times, for instance. When one of the
article pages load, Jaws leaves me at the top of the page where I can
hear
the headline of the article and the name of the paper. If I actually
wish
to
use the global search function to look for something I don't know
where to
find in that day's edition, I hit E or arrow down or whatever until I
get
to
the search form.
But on other Web pages, Jaws jumps to a search edit field immediately,
bypassing text and other page elements that precede it if I arrow back
upward to see what's there. So it's something about this which, if it
didn't
happen that way, wouldn't trigger the auto forms mode thing that's got
everyone annoyed. Or almost everyone, anyway.
If anyone knows more about page design and the coding of Jaws to
confirm
or
preferably add to that admitted speculation, I'd be really interested
to
hear something more about this. It's the technology that interests me
at
this point, as I am not playing with the Beta and I don't feel like
getting
involved in complaining about Freedom Scientific's corporate style or
defending them, either.
Thanks very much.
From: "Peter Holdstock" <peterholdstock@xxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 7:27 AM
Subject: Re: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode
Yeh you do it out of habit, and then because it's already in forms
mode it
causes you to press submit or something instead.
As I say, I like it though, just don't want it to turn on
automatically.
Peter
--------------------------------------------------
From: "dave-d0619" <dave-d0619@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 2:01 AM
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode
I like that improvement, especially for sites such as Google, where
you
land
on the search edit field after the site has loaded.
Personally, I am so used to pressing ENTER to turn on Forms Mode, I
would
probably continue to do it out of habit and, as we all know, some
habits
are
so hard to break or change.
Sincerely:
Dave Durber
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