RE: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode

I am empathetic to your plight.  I frequently have the same trouble here.
I'm embarrassed to admit I use the "grammar and spelling checker".  Oh well,
this, too, shall pass.

Have a great day.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Peter Holdstock
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 8:21 AM
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode

Yes a bit scary to say my first language is English and I have an A-Level in

it. Seem to be having a problem lately where I type phonetically even though

I know how to spell. What my brain thinks seems to be different to what my 
fingers do.

Peter

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Gene" <gwilson@xxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 3:44 PM
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode

> Peter:
>
> Whether not "whever".  (LOL)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
> Of Peter Holdstock
> Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 6:19 AM
> To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode
>
> I think those people who don't understand the problem with JAWS going
> straight in to forms mode are missing the point.
>
> A sighted user, despite being placed in the edit field can still look 
> around
>
> the web page for the content they need.
>
> A JAWS user uses quick navigation keys to look around the site as a 
> sighted
> person would. The quick navigation keys do not work whilst in forms mode 
> so
> therefore you cannot quickly move around the site without having to go out
> of forms mode first.
>
> The most sensible place to begin on a page is at the top then the user can
> decide where they want to go.
>
> Also, in Google, yes it is safe to assume you are in the edit field, but 
> not
>
> all websites put you in the search box, but some put you in the user id 
> box,
>
> and others put you straight in to the password field if the user box is
> already inputted.
>
> Many edit fields do not have sufficient labels attached to them for you to
> know what they are wanting you to input, and so it can be difficult to 
> know
> whever you need to input the user id, password, search term or other
> information (although I realise this is for web developers to get in to 
> the
> habit of doing putting better labels on forms).-------------------------
>
> How many times have you gone to use quick navigation not realising that 
> JAWS
>
> has gone in to auto forms mode and ended up entering text instead.
>
> It has been pointed out that you can turn autoforms mode off. But I love
> autoforms, and just because I don't want to be put straight in to an edit
> fieold, doesn't mean I don't want to use auto forms mode for navigation.
>
> I'm happy to be placed at the first edit box on a site loading, but I 
> think
> on that one occasion, JAWS shouldn't put you in forms mode, but perhaps 
> give
>
> you the usual message about pressing enter to go in to forms
> mode.-------------------------
>
> Peter
> From: "Bissett, Tom" <tom.bissett@xxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 2:27 PM
> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: RE: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode
>
>> But google chooses to put your cursor on the search edit box and that is
>> it.  If you have a problem with that then complain to google.
>>
>>
>> Tom Bissett
>> BMO Financial Group
>> Technology and Operations
>> Integrated Client Solutions
>> Tel: (416) 549-6514
>> E-Mail tom.bissett@xxxxxxx
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>> Behalf Of DJ
>> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 8:43 PM
>> To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: RE: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode
>>
>> I disagree.  The first thing I do at Google isn't always type in the
>> edit box.  I sometimes go to the Maps link, or some other area.  So
>> searching isn't the only thing on people's minds when they visit Google.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>> Behalf Of Rick Harmon
>> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 12:28 PM
>> To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode
>>
>> No, if the primary thing you do on a page is immediately use an edit
>> field such as in the case of google then the focus is on the edit field.
>> I do believe this to be proper design of the webpage and nothing of FS
>> doing at all.
>>
>> Also it has nothing to do with web designers hijacking us jaws users at
>> all.
>>
>> Most of these web page designers have no idea what jaws even is.
>>
>> Rick
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Yardbird" <yardbird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 12:18 PM
>> Subject: Re: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode
>>
>>
>> But Peter,
>>
>> I'm not sure from what perspective you're saying this about page design.
>> When a Web page loads for a sighted user not using a screen reader,
>> there is not a focus issue or the page capturing the mouse pointer or a
>> cursor of some sort and jumping anywhere. The page simply loads, the
>> person sees all of it, glances to where they want to look, and reads.
>> Or, if they want to use an edit field, they see it and then put the
>> mouse pointer on it. They aren't captured the way our Jaws focus is
>> hijacked when a page loads and takes us straight to an edit field.
>>
>> So do you mean that Web page designers have deliberately coded something
>> into edit fields in many cases that they know will attract the Jaws
>> focus?
>> Or is this rather something that FS designs into the way Jaws sees the
>> page as it loads? Or some combination of these two things? See what I
>> mean?
>> designes JasewJaww
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Peter Holdstock" <peterholdstock@xxxxxxx>
>> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 9:05 AM
>> Subject: Re: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode
>>
>>
>> Yes you can design the web page so that it jumps the user straight to a
>> field, and yes it will be because of that design as to why it happens
>> with
>> some sites and not with others.
>>
>> I think that JAWS should initially treat the edit field it first jumps
>> to as
>> the page loads, in the same way as it treats form fields when you use
>> the
>> quick navigation keys.
>>
>> Peter
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "Yardbird" <yardbird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 4:20 PM
>> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Subject: Re: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode
>>
>>> Hi Peter and all,
>>>
>>> It occurs to me that the reason this inconvenient forms mode thing is
>>> happening when some Web pages load is that for reasons I'm not
>>> sophisticated
>>> enough to understand, the Jaws focus is sometimes drawn to the first
>> edit
>>> field it sees as the page loads. As everyone knows, this doesn't
>> happen
>>> with
>>> every page, not even a lot of pages that have search functions not far
>>> from
>>> the top of the page. The New York Times, for instance. When one of the
>>> article pages load, Jaws leaves me at the top of the page where I can
>> hear
>>> the headline of the article and the name of the paper. If I actually
>> wish
>>> to
>>> use the global search function to look for something I don't know
>> where to
>>> find in that day's edition, I hit E or arrow down or whatever until I
>> get
>>> to
>>> the search form.
>>>
>>> But on other Web pages, Jaws jumps to a search edit field immediately,
>>> bypassing text and other page elements that precede it if I arrow back
>>> upward to see what's there. So it's something about this which, if it
>>> didn't
>>> happen that way, wouldn't trigger the auto forms mode thing that's got
>>> everyone annoyed. Or almost everyone, anyway.
>>>
>>> If anyone knows more about page design and the coding of Jaws to
>> confirm
>>> or
>>> preferably add to that admitted speculation, I'd be really interested
>> to
>>> hear something more about this. It's the technology that interests me
>> at
>>> this point, as I am not playing with the Beta and I don't feel like
>>> getting
>>> involved in complaining about Freedom Scientific's corporate style or
>>> defending them, either.
>>>
>>> Thanks very much.
>>> From: "Peter Holdstock" <peterholdstock@xxxxxxx>
>>> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 7:27 AM
>>> Subject: Re: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode
>>>
>>>
>>> Yeh you do it out of habit, and then because it's already in forms
>> mode it
>>> causes you to  press submit or something instead.
>>>
>>> As I say, I like it though, just don't want it to turn on
>> automatically.
>>>
>>> Peter
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>> From: "dave-d0619" <dave-d0619@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 2:01 AM
>>> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Subject: Re: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode
>>>
>>>> I like that improvement, especially for sites such as Google, where
>> you
>>>> land
>>>> on the search edit field after the site has loaded.
>>>>
>>>> Personally, I am so used to pressing ENTER to turn on Forms Mode, I
>> would
>>>> probably continue to do it out of habit and, as we all know, some
>> habits
>>>> are
>>>> so hard to break or change.
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely:
>>>>
>>>> Dave Durber
>>>>
>>>> --
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