[Allen wrote:] Gary, It is quite easily explained in both a-centric and geo-centric cosmologies the only difference between the two is the "origin" of the motion not the results of the motions or mat involved in predicting. This is because both must account for the same observed effects. The math for those assumed motions is easily obtained even on a-centric web sites. Aha, we don?t accept a-centric cosmologies, true, but the math that describes the relative velocities of the objects in the sky are only different from geocentric cosmologies in the origin of motion not their effects, this given the assumed distances, which I believe to be relatively accurate. Otherwise, I?m not sure what is in question. [Gary writes:] Allen, I don't know how "easy" it is to find the math on acentric websites. I know I was only informed of it during a long venture onto the BABB and many painful pages later. The link to the explanation to which I refer is here: http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=302768#302768 You will note that the explanation employs a STILL sun and the linear (tangential) motion of the moon only. This is an entirely different mechanism than what is allowed in the geocentric view. What is important in ToSeek's explanation is the simple linear motion of the moon. We geocentrists have to explain this somehow using the difference in tangential velocities between two MOVING objects (the sun and moon). This is what is in question. It is, as I said before, not a question of relative motions. By the way, what's the deal with the question marks used for apostrophes? Is there a meaning to this practice? Sincerely, Gary Shelton