Phil..if there is a change from 30 gms to 0 grms (as detected on our scale).....then we have a change. that change is due to going from 0 velocity to some other velocity, Allen Not so! And that is where you try to force your false imagination upon us.. The change to weightlessness occurs AT zero velocity, at the exact same moment of separation.. before the fall commences.. Like the hovering of the thrown up ball.. At the peak of the curve when velocity is zero, weightlessness occurs. Do you deny this momentary stationary weightlessness. umpteenth chance Phil. ----- Original Message ----- From: Allen Daves To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 8:03 AM Subject: [geocentrism] Re: acceleration calcs attachment philip said: thanks to Paul he did the work for me and showed how Allen sidesteps logic to keep an impossible conversation going.......Yes Thanks Paul I think your postion and what you base your arguments on is quite clear to everyone now...:-) Actualy Phil, Paul stated "Second, I'm not really interested in logic " so im not sure how he showed me to sidestep logic, he is not even interested in using it........LOL Notice the accusation of us being stupid..NO, I accused you then as well as now of ignoring evaluations of observations within logic secondly preferring imaginations external of facts or observations with a almost zealot like stubbornness to "keep the faith" regardless of what contradictions and inconsistencies it produces.... thirdly that you invoke your conclusions as the bases for all your evaluations that are supposed to demonstrate your conclusions.......that is called a circular fallacy but then again who cares about logic we are only here for "scientific discussion" ryt?!.....LOL ignoring that I said the change noticed was a state of weightlessness.. not a change of velocity.. Phil..if there is a change from 30 gms to 0 grms (as detected on our scale).....then we have a change. that change is due to going from 0 velocity to some other velocity, .............. as is the case with a suspended elevator i mentioned ................That is a not only just a change in the velocity of the elevator but a change in velocity wrt magnitude which is an acceleration by definition... and it was detectable...I also addressed what happens once we are in free fall and then change from 32 ft per sec/ per sec in any given direction and explained& demonstrated why and how even assuming MS's own constructs................