[geocentrism] Re: acceleration calcs attachment

  • From: Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 08:58:24 -0700 (PDT)

Philip, 

That is the whole point of the discussion is it not, to determine if 
measurements, space and motion is absolute or just all relative?....But, you 
cannot assume the very thing you are attempting to prove as the justification 
for assuming it!? You only have WYSIWYG. Without something to tell you that 
that particular WYSIWYG is an illusion then any conclusions based on it might 
be an illusion is just a valid as aliens might be at the heart of all our 
social woes....!? If you are going to stick to science then don’t claim "it 
could be" as evidence and certainly not proof or insist that it is that way. 
First prove it is, then show me how "it could be". Relativity has this all 
backwards and so does all of its "explanations". In relativity you must first 
assume relativity is true first before you can even begin to understand how it 
could all be that way...??? Otherwises, what is shown in reality is that no 
matter how many or what you claim as a "ref frame"
 the earth/stars ( spinining earth or rotaing stars) always provide the only 
frame by which all other frames are measured by, no matter how many or what 
kinds of differnt ref frames you create, here on earth or anywhere else "in 
space"!



----- Original Message ----
From: philip madsen <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: geocentrism list <geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 7:11:39 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: acceleration calcs attachment


Allen I do not get any coherence from you here. 
 
Are you trying to rewrite the physics book..  
 
Acceleration is change of direction or velocity. end of story.  A body in 
circular motion is accelerating.. You can't change that. 
 
Also you rubbish and joke about relativity and yet try to call on it often in 
support of your jokes..
 
As regards relativity, I support practical relativity so long as anything 
Einstein or his supporters says does not come into it..  The real relationship 
between moving bodies. To bring in frames of reference is a convenience for 
calculations .Like I said to the passenger in the jet, the ball dropped 18 
inches. .  It is not a reality.. Well it does not have to be a reality..  
 
Practical relativity..  When you drop a ball in a moving train it only looks 
like it moves in a straight line..  It doesn't.. Its an illusion...  Just as 
seeing the sun rise could be an illusion.  
http://www.csa.com/discoveryguides/gravity/overview.php
Talking about Heinstein, I read a sensible interpretation today. I was 
searching for the speed of gravity, and this article  will cop some extreme 
criticism from me later, but the author said this, which is quite clear, 
 
"The speed of light is a physical constant equal to exactly 299,792.458 
kilometers per second (km/s), or about 186,471 miles per second. The assumption 
that gravity also travels at this speed is implicit in Einstein's general 
theory of relativity, formulated in 1915, which recognizes the universal 
character of the propagation speed of light and the consequent dependence of 
space, time, and other mechanical measurements on the motion of the observer 
performing the measurements. 
 
Notice, that!  The mechanical measurements are dependent on the motion of the 
observer making the measurements....
 
In the jumbo I measure the exact length of the drop of the ball as 18 inches..  
Yet that is a lie..  It dropped a curve, perhaps a mile long. 
 
And of course those measurements are illusions to the eye. They are wrong or 
not according to the reality. 
 
Yet the critics of the MM experiments, twist this statement and say in reverse, 
that the interference showed up because the change in mechanical measurements 
are real..  

Bonkers..  
 
Philip. 
 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Allen Daves 
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 2:14 AM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: acceleration calcs attachment


 in blue,


----- Original Message ----
From: Regner Trampedach <art@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 11:28:37 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: acceleration calcs attachment

Allen, I'm afraid you got your accelerations in circular motions a bit wrong.

The definition of acceleration, a, is "change of velocity". Now a velocity, v, 
is a
vector and it has both a direction and a magnitude - the magnitude of a velocity
is called speed.
Absolutly right...but wrt what?.......in a perfectly circular orbit where the 
velocity remains constant..... but direction it self has requirments one of 
which is ..direction requires dimention....ummmm 
  From that knowledge we see that there are two different ways of changing
a velocity (and having an acceleration): by changing either speed or direction. 
Right! but again wrt what?..
  In a perfectly circular motion, the speed is constant, but the direction 
changes
continuously. realy!? wrt what?...And which way does the velocity change?
 
The velocity does not change in a perfectly circular because the body is within 
the gravitaitonal/ inertial feild and it keeps the same orentitaion to that 
inertial feild. In GTR/STR the inertail/gravitational  feild is used as the Ref 
frame, therfore you cannot claim a change in velocity or oreintaion to that 
feild/ frame of ref. "along the orbit" what is the orbit wrt?...does the feild 
strenth remain constent?....YES then you cannot claim a change to somthing that 
does not change!
 
The velocity remains constant wrt the gravity feild. further, the velocity can 
never changes wrt to the center of anything? If you calim the center of the 
body itself then, as long as the obiting body stays tangetal to the center 
point of the parent body you can't calim any change direction from that a 
point...! Circular directions are meaningless to those mathematical abstracts 
(Points)....... A radial orentiation to a common point (orbit) does not and 
cannot consititue a change in direction, unless you argue for absolute space/ 
time...!!! Why? Because w/o absolute space/t ime directions are meaningless. 
all is relitive but relitive to what?..A point has no dimention therfore no way 
of defining a direction only a orentation..but then again as long as the 
satilite remains tangital there is no cahnge in orentaion! Relitive to a 
"point" or the center point of a parenet body being orbitied, every direction 
that is tangital to that center point is the same
 direction/orentation w/o somthing to reference external of the point!
There can be no calim to a change of direction  without Absolute space time to 
get directio from!? In either the free fall toward earth or the tangital vector 
both are equal and thus there is no acceleration by defintion....  Points are 
mathematical abstractions that have no dimention in and of themselfs you cant 
get direction or change direction (which requires dimention)  from a 
dimensionless point!? You have to have something in your universe outside your 
"dimentionless point" to first give you dimention so as to be able to change 
direction ????.....Ahh but we are discussing "inertial ref frames" so you can't 
use background stars (objects outsise your ref frame) to give your reference 
frame a frame of reference !?( directions)......umm
 
 Towards the centre of
the circular motion. Instead of following the tangent to the circle (as it would
without the acceleration) the object is pulled in towards the centre. Since
acceleration is proportional (by mass) to the force, F=m*a, (and m is a simple
number, i.e., not a vector) it follows that the force is also towards the 
centre of
the motion. It is a so-called "centripetal force".
  For a perfectly circular motion, the magnitude of the acceleration (the 
length of
the acceleration vector) is constant, but changes direction through 360° in one
period of the orbit. The force is always perpendicular to the velocity in this 
case. velocity wrt what?.....The velocity of the body never changes wrt to any 
point or the feild in a circular orbit ..you can't calim a change when there is 
no change by defintion!........   In elliptic, parabolic or hyperbolic orbits 
you will also have some acceleration an aceleration is a change by defintion.. 
you can't have a change that is not a change!?....... but wrt what?..
You call it "along the orbit" what is the orbit?...Does the feild strenth 
remain constent in eliptical orbits?....NO!.Not in a eliptical orbit...therfore 
a change must exist by defintion.....The velocity nor direction of the orbiting 
body never changes wrt the center of the parent body in a circular orbit,  
however, it must with elitpical orbits by defintion..? 
 
along the orbit, but the force and acceleration is still towards the centre (or 
focal
point) of the orbit. Not in eliptical orbits it is not sagnac shows that..... 
In those cases the force is not perpendicular to the velocity.
  I hope that helped clear-up the concept of acceleration.
The confussion here is yours, a circular orbit could not change velocity..if it 
ever did wrt what?..Where a eliptical orbit must do so but wrt the body and its 
feild being orbited in a real way.  In fact there is no difference between a 
Rocket that launches into a parabolic or hyperbolic orbits  and a planet in an 
eliptical orbit.....The body first moves against or away from the bodies feild 
streangth and then with/ towards  the feild.....We can and do always measure 
that change! beteen perogiee and apogee w/o referenceing anything outside the 
craft itself every time, we can detect it......!  Again  you can't calim a real 
change if there is no change to measure in reality.  If a change exist in 
reality then it must have a real quantity that can be measured. If it cannot be 
measured in reality then it can only exist as an imagintion/ relitivistic, 
manthematicl, abstraction of nonsense!. That is the difference between living 
with mathematical abstracts and
 living in reality.

        - Regner


Allen Daves wrote: 
attachment.... 



----- Original Message ----
From: Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 1:43:10 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: acceleration calcs


1. Paul you obviously did not read my previous post Friday, 14 March, 2008 
4:00:54 PM...????
 
 
2. I suggest you consult your local HS or coldge Physic lab...?.....Your 
objections make no sense in any pratical application of physics as it relates 
to Acceleration.everything i said stand...and you can do it yourself if you 
like most HS students who have taken physics have.....There is no difference 
between traviling at a constent 100 mpH or 0 mph as far as inertial 
/gravitational feilds and  acceleration are concerned..????.... The bomb with 
the spring accelerometer suspended in air has the same inertia in the same way 
that travailing at 100 mPH there is no difference between the two….nor is there 
any difference in a bomb on a airplane flying at 100 MPH then suddenly the bomb 
is dropped the state of acceleration existed for the bomb before it was dropped 
it had no acceleration…............It makes no difference if the bomb is 
travailing at 100 or 0 MPH the drop changes the velocity/ changes the 
acceleration…period!…….. That is and always is
 and can be detected!….Traviling toward the sun is not any more different 
anymore then a rocket that climbs at the gravity rate of gravity while Gravity 
attempts to pull the rocked back and then  then begins to free fall  back to 
the earth..........you can most certainly detect the acceleration changes.... 
....There is no difference in a orbiting body!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.....All of the 
motion is still toward or away from the grav feild ( toward is less 
resistnace/inertia, away from is more resitance/inertia) and that can always be 
detected no matter what Inertial ref frame you are in!!!.. The mass on the 
spring may not detect the 100 or 0 mph constant velocity but any change is by 
definition an acceleration / inertial change and will be detected in any frame 
of reference….It makes no difference that the bomb is in the earth’s "inertial 
ref frame" or that "Gravity pulls on all objects equally". When the bomb is 
suspended Gravity is puling on the bomb
 and the spring/mass accelerometer "equally". Further,  when it is dropped the 
only force acting on it is still Gravity and yet we can detect that drop with 
the accelerometer….why?.....Because the state of inertia has changed….. ummmm 
the whole free fall suggesting is not only pure conjecture of relativity but 
worse, it can and is shown to be completly false in any and every "ref frame" 
you can perform it in..!?
 
3. You still don’t get it.!?..It is the fact that gravity is not pulling on all 
parts of every atom on the earth equally at the same time that is the reason 
for tides and bulges and cyclones (clockwise and counter)...That being the case 
you cannot make the argument that gravity is pulling on the mass/spring at the 
exact same way as it is the bomb....WHY?..coz A. we can measure it in real 
life, your assertions and objections are nonsense...! B. If gravity pulled 
everything equal simultaneously then there could be no tides or bulges do to 
Grav cos gravity would be pulling the rest of the planet at the same degree 
thus there could be NO VARIATIONS IN GRAVITATIONAL EFFECTS (anywhere on the 
planet )BECAUSE GRAVITY WOULD NOT HAVE ANY VERIATIONS TO AFFECT ANYTHING!? If 
the gravitational forces of the moon and sun all pull at the same rate to every 
particle on the earth then the earth would only orbit the barrycenter of all 
three bodies but with absolutely no
 bulges or tides whatsoever due to the moons gravity pulling extra on the water 
as it passes over!? …You really should read my post on gravity what is it and 
how it works.



----- Original Message ----
From: Paul Deema <paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 12:17:40 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: acceleration calcs


Allen D
Interspersion time again. Closing comment at the bottom of this post.

 
----- Original Message ----
From: Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Sunday, 16 March, 2008 4:42:27 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: acceleration calcs


Paul,,
 1. I stated accelerometer and even specified a particular kind of which your 
question dose not address.....?
[PD1] I checked out quantum accelerometers at your suggestion. I gave you a 
reference. I asked did this meet your specifications. You responded that it 
did. I stated that, while it was very sensitive, it amounted to a mass on a 
spring. I asked if you differed from this view. You did not respond. I thanked 
you for your agreement. You raised no objection. I am entitled to infer that 
you agree that it is indeed a mass on a spring.
 2. YOU GOTA BE KIDDING!?...If you do an experiment as you shown in your 
diagram with a bomb and a mass on a spring you will most assuradly without 
question be able to measure the acceleration....You should try it 
sometimes??????.....Most any highschool physics student has performed that 
experiment before ....It works on the vomit rocket too.....free fallllllllllll  
..!?
[PD1] I don't believe you. In free fall, the reference mass will be accelerated 
at the same rate as the bomb casing and will take up a middle position having 
no displacement.
3. The only time you could not detect the acceleration is if you 
A. reach terminal velocity first then attempt to measure using a mass on a 
sping, then eveything is free falling together ......
[PD1] Terminal velocity is a specious issue. I specified zero friction thus 
velocity is without limit -- excepting relativistic effects. Yes I know the 
bomb has fins -- don't get picky! However -- in passing -- if the bomb casing 
reaches terminal velocity ie there is drag, the mass will show acceleration. 
or
B. Try to measure the acceleration rate of the free fall itself once you are in 
the free fall...
[PD1] Well that is the point isn't it? That's what happens when the string 
breaks.
HOwever even then any and all changes to that free fall can and will be 
detected even by a mass on a spring......
[PD1] Rubbish. The mass is being accelerated at the same rate as the bomb 
casing.
so take the acceleration rate of the bomb first put it in free fall then 
measure  the rate...you cannot with the mass on the sping......however now 
change that rate of that free fall as in the case of the earth around the sun 
it is always changing.......either a positive accleration rate change (eg 
toward the sun.) or a negitive accleration rate (eg away from the sun)... 
[PD1] Rubbish. The mass is being accelerated at the same rate as the bomb 
casing.
Although we should not expect to detect the acceleration rate of the body in 
free fall as long as the rate NEVER CHANGES.....
[PD1] You still won't detect a change because the mass is being accelerated at 
the same rate as the bomb casing!
but the rate must change for a orbit....gravity does not pull on all parts of 
the earth equaly if it did then you could not have things such as weather 
patters and planitary bulges explained by non gravitaion!?................
[PD1] Neither of these phenomena have gravitational origins -- real or non.
However in the case of the earth since the freefall is toward then away from a 
mass there is a postive accelration curve and a negitive acceleration curve
[PD1] Agreed. Both the mass and the bomb case will equally be subject to 
changing accelerations.
....just as in the gravitational explinations of planitary bulges
[PD1] No! 
...and tides?????....ummmmmmmm
[PD1] I don't understand tides well enough to comment.
[PD1] The rest of this is so disjointed I cannot comment.
.....changes in acceleration/ rate and pull of Gravity can be measured because 
the acceleration rate of the mass on the earth is in constent change througout 
the earths orbit and roation......IF AND ONLY IF the acceleration rate never 
changed and gravity pulled on all parts of the earth equaly then and only then 
would you not expect to measure any accelration since everything would be 
acceleration at a terminal velocity in free fall at the same rate with no 
changes ever.....but then again you would not be able to appeal to ties and 
bulges as effects of gravitaion for thoes are do to un-equal gravitaional 
forces on a mass.......Your argument must either accept that gravity is both 
acting on all mass simoltaniously or it is not....If it is qual to all parts 
simoltaniously then you have no explinations for tides/ planitary bulge,  if it 
does not then you have no arguemnt for a freefalling objects in a gravitational 
field........because a free faling object
 in a gravitaional feild has no fundimental differnce then the ocean water that 
is free falling toward the sun at the same rate as every other particle of mass 
on the earthis....UMMMM...Wake up!  
 
Again....any change in inertia is and can be detected free fall or not??  
...This holds true for a bomb suspended then  relesed to free fall or in a 
orbiting body unless the orbiting body maintains a constent acceleration or 
reaches a terminal velocity, where no more acceleration or changes in velocity 
are taking place... that is not the case with the earth or the bomb....and 
gusse what it holds true not matter how many "inertial frames" you attempt to 
create.
 
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
 
This problem can best be resolved without muddying the waters with tides and 
oblateness of orbiting bodies. Place the bomb with embedded accelerometer in 
Earth orbit at Lagrange point 2 where it will be accelerated and decelerated, 
just as the Earth was a little earlier in time, and explain how you believe the 
mass on a spring will behave relative to the bomb casing.
If you accelerate the bomb casing in this situation with an attached rocket, 
then the mass will be displaced because it is not being accelerated, but if the 
casing and the mass are both being accelerated and decelerated, eg by gravity, 
then there will be no displacement.
I acknowledge one weakness in my argument. If a body is placed in orbit at 
Lagrange point 2, then I perceive that the distance between the body and the 
Earth will increase slightly on the journey from aphelion to perihelion and 
conversely it will decrease from perihelion to aphelion. My perception may be 
in error, but if it is not, then is this the effect you claim you can measure 
on the Earth?
 
Paul D
  
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
----- Original Message ----
From: Paul Deema <paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 10:59:40 AM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: acceleration calcs


Allen D
I should have known better than to ask supplementary questions so I guess I 
should have expected a detour which fails to arrive at the point at issue. That 
point is -- "How does a mass on a spring indicate acceleration in free fall?" 
I'm not interested in how muddy your strange logical contortions can make the 
waters, I just want an explanation of how a mass on a spring can be used to 
measure acceleration in free fall. I'm not interested in what "mathpages" says 
about ring lasers, I'm interested in hearing from you, how you would use a mass 
on a spring to measure acceleration in free fall. And anyway, why should I be 
interested in a site that has been derisively dismissed as having value only as 
a source of humour by your confederate Robert Bennet of GWW fame. Please stop 
posturing and demonstrating to everyone just how much cleverer you are than I 
and answer the simple question -- How do you use a mass on a spring to 
demonstrate and/or measure
 acceleration in free fall?
Feel free to use the accompanying illustration in your explanation.
Paul D


----- Original Message ----
From: Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, 14 March, 2008 4:00:54 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: acceleration calcs


Again there is difference between acidemic rhetoric and real world 
applications.......The experiments were done with a cirular mirrors such that 
the emitters and the micros did not rotate wrt each other (works even in a 
vacuum no molecules to bounce around) so the moving mirrors or molecules in the 
"laser cavity" explanation is.... well quite silly
 
This is my favorite statement in the whole weki explanation..."In the case of 
ring laser interferometry there is no need for calibration. (In a sense one 
might say that the process is self-calibrating). The beat frequency will be 
zero if and only if the ring laser setup is non-rotating with respect to 
inertial space." .......LOL....although they are right about no need for 
calibration...the underlined portion is quite laughable!.......You can take any 
ring laser turn it off wait and go to some other "INERTIAL SPACE"...LOL.. 
......say the sun...... then turn it on.....and it will still  give you the 
motion wrt the earth......ummmmmm ;-(
 
Clue: "Inertial space" is a Relativist term & concept not only has it never 
been proven but it only has any validity whatsoever in GTR/STR!....if GTR and 
STR are wrong then there is no such monsters..period!...............You cannot 
use a relativistic axiom (statements of faith in GTR & STR) to claim an effect 
is a relativistic effect (because you’ve put your faith in that axiom & in GTR/ 
STR)then use that effect to prove relativity is Valid!?..You must first prove 
the axiom is true first external of relativity is true before you can use it to 
prove resistivity!!!!...Resistivity does not bother to do that ...why? Because 
they are stupid...NO!..Because the Axiom is self-evident!......What do we mean 
by self-evident?.......IF IT WERE NOT TRUE THEN THE COPERNICAN PRINCIPLE WOULD 
BE FALSE....ummmmmmmm.........I thought that is what we were trying to prove 
one way or the others.....?????? ..What part of circular nonsense do you not 
understand?
 
Final clue: Relativity is wrong! ....wikipedia's explanation is based on 
relativity, therefore it's explanation is........... wrong!
 
Science has many underlying assumptions..nothing wrong with assuming some 
things we all must....but...you would do yourself a big favor by looking for 
those and asking the question why do we assume that?.....The reason should be 
clear by now......without the Copernican principle as a underlying assumption 
there is no GTR?STR.....NO GTR/STR then absolutely no explanations for why the 
universe only looks centered on a stationary earth....
 
This is why at the end of the day folk like Fed Hoyle & Hawking must appeal to 
"Modesty" ...still don’t get it?.....let me put for you in simpler 
terms.......Hawking knows a lot more physics then you do....wait for it that is 
not the punch line....here it comes..........and he fully understands that 
Relativity cannot be proven and if cannot be proven can only be assumed but 
only for philosophical reasons... 
back to wekipedia.........You see as with a lot of "popular physics"(ignorance) 
the commonly touted explanations are not only wrong but even MS Science does 
not believe that junk although you have to do be a PhD candidate or do some 
serious research on your own to find what MS really thinks/ explains it.........
 
Paul, you would have done far better if you appealed to mathapges, [*] far 
better more detailed formal and "scientifically acceptable" "proper" MS 
explanation....... but I will wait for that one.........:-)


----- Original Message ----
From: Paul Deema <paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 7:44:07 AM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: acceleration calcs


Allen D 
OK -- I looked here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagnac_effect and it confirms 
my understanding of Sagnac Effect (at least that part which I understand does 
-- the maths is beyond me) and I can't see why you would quote this in defence 
of your assertion that a quantum tunnelling accelerometer will indicate 
acceleration in free-fall.
You did not quarrel with my simplification that  ' ... it is still a mass on a 
spring!' so I discern your acceptance. I still want an explanation from you as 
to how a mass on a spring in a falling bomb case can indicate the local value 
of g (friction = zero).
Paul D



----- Original Message ----
From: Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, 13 March, 2008 6:19:44 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: acceleration calcs


Paul.. a free fall does not prevent you from measruing an acceleration period. 
Who in the world told you that....an accidemic or a theorotician certainly not 
anyone doing pratical real work with free falling objects becasue we can and do 
all day long?....That is the point to Sagnac 1913 suggest you look it 
up.........That assertion is based on GTR it is and was proven wrong. alas but 
then came STR it was invented to explain why that was still true even though 
experiments using light showed otherwise.....it did so by attempting to create 
"Inertial ref frames" for eletromagnetic radiation as well....alas but...that 
too was proven wrong too!... The only ones who accept & invoke it as gosple 
truth are theoreticans and acidemics. However, since the only other alternitive 
is to admit a stationary earth ......GTR & STR are thus the stus quo and will 
remain so untill somthing else can be found more phylosphicaly acceptable to 
explain why the earth only appears
 at the center of a universe staionary and only appears to have the/any and 
only motion relating to the earth  measured sidrealy not annualy.  STR 
attempted such an explination by ignoring or denying that any motion at all was 
and is ever measured coz it is in free fall/ inertial fames....but anyone who 
actualy performs an experiment with acceleration of objects in freefall knows 
that is absolutly not true!?..........You don't see you are using GTR axioms 
(statments of faith) to prop up the GTR Conclusion but you must use the GTR 
conclusion to "support" the axiom. GTR and STR have absolutly no foundation to 
them whatsoever without invoking the "Coperican principle" that was the whole 
point of their developement by Einstine and crew in the late 19th and early 
20th century...? The problem is you can't invoke the very principle you are 
trying to "prove" or hold as self evident  as the foundation for the theory 
that supposedly proves your principle......
 that is not proof that is a circular falicy built opon faith in the copernican 
principle. the experiments show that objects in free fall the acceleration can 
be measured w/ort to anything outside of that free falling object.....!? Proof 
is in the application not in the theoretical and acidmemic retoric..... We do 
it all the time.... you can take a gyro that is not in motion here on the earth 
turn it off then turn it on once the freefalling object reaches its terminal 
velocity  and .............wholaaaa......... i can tell you for a fact what the 
exact velocity and accelertaion of that free falling object is.......take that 
same gyro in object turn it back off and now put it into space....now turn it 
on...I can tell you the same things... acceleration and velocity if any and the 
difference between what it was before........................ You guys don't 
realise you are confusing text book assertions with the practical 
appications.....


----- Original Message ----
From: Paul Deema <paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 9:17:18 AM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: acceleration calcs


Allen D
Concerning "Title:Quantum tunneling cantilever accelerometer" -- thank you for 
your agreement.
My reading of this document tells me that it remains, for all its sensitivity, 
a mass on a spring. It may indeed register the tiniest of accelerations, but it 
will still read zero if it is not being accelerated. Wouldn't be much use if it 
did would it?
As I don't have any idea how you expect it to read acceleration in free fall, 
why don't you favour us all with a short, concise, lucid explanation of how you 
understand this happening. I'm sure we'd all appreciate that.
And as you raised the matter, a similar explanation of the uses of your 
favourite super-sensitive gyroscope would, I'm sure,  also be appreciated by 
all.
In case you have any doubts here, for mine, Regner said it all.
Paul D



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