I am a relatively new Foxboro I/A user, with 10+ years of PLC programming experience. I have taken the first main configuration training and am looking for some feedback on whether the 2102 - Ladder Logic and Sequence Control class would be of value to me. We are using PLC's for most of our discrete control, so the ladder logic portion is not much use to me. I would like to concentrate on the sequence blocks (HLBL). Has anyone taken this class? What is the proportion of ladder to HLBL stuff? Don Horlacher Electrical/Control Engineer ASARCO Hayden 520-356-3500 Email: DHorlacher@xxxxxxxxxx -----Original Message----- From: tom.vandewater@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tom.vandewater@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 1:48 PM To: foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: [foxboro] Sequence code (MON, DEP, IND) opinions Chuck Jones said: " When I was first learning this job, I went to an area Users' Group meeting at the plant where Duc and Tom work. (At the time, I didn't know they were world famous...) What they were doing with sequence blocks 10 years ago still humbles me when I look at my notes from that meeting. (I know, 'cause I just dug them out.)" Wow Chuck! Duc and I got a good ribbing from the rest of the guys here at work because they didn't know that we were "WORLD FAMOUS" either. I'm impressed that you could still lay hands on that propaganda we put out at the users group meeting 10 years ago. We do use a lot of sequence blocks and have developed a modular sequence strategy that loosely adheres to the S88 standards of UNITS, EQUIPMENT, OPERATIONS, and PHASES. It provides a standard HMI interface to allow operators to transition equipment from one operation to another by selecting operational targets via the DM based HMI. We run a combination of continuous and batch in our processes and I agree that Foxboro IA provided a lot of ways to accomplish our control goals. =20 Early on we used a lot of ladder logic for discrete device manipulations and sequence blocks to coordinate the analog and discrete devices to run our batch and continuous processes. We have been replacing a lot of the discrete valve and motor control that used to be done in ladder logic with CIN/GDEV/COUT blocks that are more easily documentable/traceable. We only seldom need the millisecond speed that the ladder logic provides as Gabriel O'Dwyer mentioned. All of the options have value and can be employed if needed. The sequence blocks are the only block that allows "connectionless" reads and writes. That ability has served us well but not without considerable documentation pain. When getting or setting a value from a sequence block, Foxboro has provided no way to document or search for them. =20 Today, thanks to Duc and Mike Stewart, we have a browser based queriable database that not only shows the CMPD:BLK.PARAM references made via direct connections between blocks but also all of the SOFT "connectionless" gets and sets we make in our sequence code. We always hoped that FOXCAE, IACC, or IEE would provide that capability because it is essential for us to know where every control reference originates. If I want to delete a block from our system I first query the database to see ALL of the references to it. If I deleted the block and a sequence somewhere on our system was trying to write one of its parameters the sequence could fail/hang-up/or delay based on how much smarts I included in the code. I know I will get ripped by many CALC block / PLB block aficionados for saying it, but I believe the sequence blocks are the most powerful, understandable, documentable blocks that Foxboro offers. There is, however, a lot to know about them. They really needed to be optimized on CP-10's and 30's to avoid over running the CP's. The optimization on CP40's, 60's, and 270's is still a good practice but not as critical to the CP if you have two or three poorly optimized ones. In situations where high speed batch control is not required I have used sequence blocks to control an entire process, even in a CP-10! Cheers, Tom VandeWater Control Systems Developer/Analyst Dow Corning Corporation Carrollton, KY USA _______________________________________________________________________ This mailing list is neither sponsored nor endorsed by Invensys Process Systems (formerly The Foxboro Company). Use the info you obtain here at your own risks. 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