[cryptome] Re: The CIA Saves Lives
- From: doug <douglasrankine2001@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: cryptome@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2014 16:28:11 +0000
Hi Shaun,
I agree with you that there is no general duty in the Common Law for a
UK citizen to report a crime. There are perhaps good sound reasons for
this, but I don't know.
see url: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omission_%28criminal_law%29
There is a duty to report certain specific crimes, which is contained in
legislation.
For those of you who have never heard of Colin Wallace and "Clockwork
Orange" some information can be found at url:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colin_Wallace
I am not going to go into the legal definition of torture, or the
difference between it and enhanced interrogation techniques. All I am
going to say is that there is no need for it or them, the information
can be gained in other ways.
Hearts and minds...If you can't get them by their hearts and minds, grab
'em by the ballocks...Isn't that the joke... Give me the money, give me
a job...I'll do or say anything you want... :-).
The CIA enhanced interrogation program had little to do with eliciting
information, or combatting terrorism, the information had already been
gained through voluntary and free admissions by some of the suspected
terrorists. Also, people who were not terrorists but arrested due to
sod's law, were subjected to those techniques. There was little or no
co-ordination of the information, the interrogators were
untrained...picked for being bully boys. The powers that be high up in
the CIA denied and/or refused to share the intelligence information with
the Congress or even POTUS...according to POTUS under the doctrine of
"plausible denial".
To elicit information from a suspect, there are plenty of studies on
the theory and practice and law enforcement use those techniques every
day. It does not involve force, it does not involve maltreatment of any
kind, it involves detectives and case officers knowing their case, using
the right laws and knowledge, training and experience, and asking the
right questions and then checking out the facts as presented.
see url: http://cryptome.org/2014/04/spy-sci-art.pdf
for just one of those research papers and articles. There was another
very good one produced by law enforcement in Canada, which I read
thoroughly.
ATB
Dougie.
P.S. We have certainly started something here...Come on, lets get it all
out...:-).
On 10/12/14 12:43, Shaun O'Connor wrote:
on the subject of abuse and torture here is haughty for you Douggie
In the UK as things stand at present. while it is an offence to commit
abuse ( particularly sexual abuse) it is apparently NOT an offence to
cover such offences up. slightly "off topic" but i think highly
relevant in the light of allegations made by a certain Collin Wallace.
I wonder if such abuse was used to destroy families of actual or would
be whistle blowers?
torture can take many forms including tactics designed to disrupt
peoples emotional stability and as a consequence render them as being
seen as unreliable in the eyes of the public.
as regards highly aggressive methods like water boarding, any
intelligence gained would be highly suspect on the grounds that such
information was gained under extreme duress, further one could argue
that the information given was more "what the nurturer wanted to hear"
as opposed to credible verifiable evidence.
Of course America are very good at using "black" places for their
nefarious activities. funny how the US keeps Cuba at arms length yes
when it came to setting up their torture centres Guantanamo bay was
used. so suddenly Cuba became the secret ally .
And of course Britain is just as culpable in its explicit aiding and
abetting of such measures.
ATB
Shaun
On 10/12/2014 12:02, doug wrote:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/cia-interrogations-saved-lives-1418142644
They still believe in their own lies...even though they have been
exposed as myths so many times. What kind of people are they? Don't
they even read the eminent research which has been carried out in
their own country, that there are better ways of obtaining
information from suspects? There is a whole science devoted to the
subject.
Also, why did they only allow CIA officers with a previous record of
abuse and violence and personality disorders to become the
interrogators, without any training in any form of interrogation,
advanced or otherwise? Why wasn't it overseen, why weren't records
kept. One would have thought that if it was all above board, legal,
justifiable, and heaven forbid, moral and ethical and in the
kidnapped'ts best interests as well as that of the nation, that there
would have been plenty of records kept; if only to prove that it
worked in theory and practice, and to show that no illegal practices
had been used. Instead they illegally destroyed even the videos
made of the torture..because they said they were valueless. A new
meaning for the word "incriminating" more like.
I seem to remember one story on Cryptome, where one female CIA
officer, rather high up the heirarchy who was part of a team trying
to catch Bin Laden was so keen to get to the interrogations that she
moved rock and stone to get there. I wonder if it was satisfying and
what information did she receive after the 187th time the suspect was
water boarded. Did it help her to catch Bin Laden and to win the war
on terrorism. Nice to know that there is equality between the sexes
at the CIA.
$80 million dollars paid to a couple of inexperienced
psychologists...to make sure that the program was done credibly and
with respectability? A total of $180 million spent on the programme!
Why did they involve so many other countries in their "extaordinary
rendition" trips and pay to have bases built in some of the most
respectable as well as nefarious countries in the world. Why not
have them on US territory? After all it was all legal.
I remember too, here in the UK the overflights and stopovers by
privately hired areoplanes carrying out the extraordinary rendition,
was denied by Jack Straw, the then Foreign Secretary. It took
aeroplane fanatics who took photos and accessed flight records to
prove that they had happened. The UK of course, has signed the Human
Rights Act and as signatory to the European Convention on Human
Rights and supports the European Court of Human Rights. No torture,
no support for torture. We were supposed to have learned our
lessons from using similar methods against IRA suspects way back in
the "troubles".
Have no crimes been committed here? Will no one be prosecuted for
crimes against humanity? Will the US still wage war and interfere in
other countries in the name of Enduring Freedom and Human Rights...
Begins to sound a bit hollow, but there you are that is politics for
you...
It is as well to remember that the greatest advocates for human
rights were the US prosecutors at the Nuremburg trials of the Nazis.
"Obeying lawful orders does not excuse abuse of the higher human
right to life"...Jackson...Leading US Prosecutor.
see url: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/keywords/nuremberg.html
ATB
Dougie.
Ah! Well! At least these human beings aren't cats...they didn't eat
their prey.
--
*_PRIVACY IS A BASIC RIGHT - NOT A CONCESSION _*
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/11/when-time-comes-we-need-be-ready-fight-tpps-secret-anti-user-agenda
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