On 10/12/2014 13:10, Chien Fume wrote: > a system of government that, like it or not, has done more good than harm If you genuinely believe that then we are at the core of the problem. Here are some of the bads: 1. Treating the South American continent as a collection of vassal states through much of the 20th century with a continuing fierce opposition to any gestures of independence from their varying current states of vassal-hood. 2. Raising every North Korean city to the ground through the early 1950's, killing millions both North and South in the process. 3. Killing 3 million Vietnamese and poisoning both population and land for decades - to what purpose was that repulsive episode directed? 4. Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Ukraine costing millions more lives and the destruction of ancient cultures. And they are just the tip of the 20th century iceberg of 'do things our way or else' threats menaces and similarly dirty covert operations, which continue with increasing desperation. Don't you think the Empire might just have something badly wrong? or is it all going to plan? I'd be interested in your views. And while you're at it, maybe a similar list of those 'goods' you see. PeterP