[cryptome] Re: The CIA Saves Lives

  • From: doug <douglasrankine2001@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: cryptome@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2014 16:28:11 +0000

Hi Shaun,
I agree with you that there is no general duty in the Common Law for a UK citizen to report a crime. There are perhaps good sound reasons for this, but I don't know.

 see url: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omission_%28criminal_law%29

There is a duty to report certain specific crimes, which is contained in legislation.

For those of you who have never heard of Colin Wallace and "Clockwork Orange" some information can be found at url:

I am not going to go into the legal definition of torture, or the difference between it and enhanced interrogation techniques. All I am going to say is that there is no need for it or them, the information can be gained in other ways.

Hearts and minds...If you can't get them by their hearts and minds, grab 'em by the ballocks...Isn't that the joke... Give me the money, give me a job...I'll do or say anything you want... :-).

The CIA enhanced interrogation program had little to do with eliciting information, or combatting terrorism, the information had already been gained through voluntary and free admissions by some of the suspected terrorists. Also, people who were not terrorists but arrested due to sod's law, were subjected to those techniques. There was little or no co-ordination of the information, the interrogators were untrained...picked for being bully boys. The powers that be high up in the CIA denied and/or refused to share the intelligence information with the Congress or even POTUS...according to POTUS under the doctrine of "plausible denial".

To elicit information from a suspect, there are plenty of studies on the theory and practice and law enforcement use those techniques every day. It does not involve force, it does not involve maltreatment of any kind, it involves detectives and case officers knowing their case, using the right laws and knowledge, training and experience, and asking the right questions and then checking out the facts as presented.

see url: http://cryptome.org/2014/04/spy-sci-art.pdf

for just one of those research papers and articles. There was another very good one produced by law enforcement in Canada, which I read thoroughly.
P.S. We have certainly started something here...Come on, lets get it all out...:-).

On 10/12/14 12:43, Shaun O'Connor wrote:
on the subject of abuse and torture  here is haughty for you Douggie

In the UK as things stand at present. while it is an offence to commit abuse ( particularly sexual abuse) it is apparently NOT an offence to cover such offences up. slightly "off topic" but i think highly relevant in the light of allegations made by a certain Collin Wallace.

I wonder if such abuse was used to destroy families of actual or would be whistle blowers?

torture can take many forms including tactics designed to disrupt peoples emotional stability and as a consequence render them as being seen as unreliable in the eyes of the public.

as regards highly aggressive methods like water boarding, any intelligence gained would be highly suspect on the grounds that such information was gained under extreme duress, further one could argue that the information given was more "what the nurturer wanted to hear" as opposed to credible verifiable evidence.

Of course America are very good at using "black" places for their nefarious activities. funny how the US keeps Cuba at arms length yes when it came to setting up their torture centres Guantanamo bay was used. so suddenly Cuba became the secret ally .

And of course Britain is just as culpable in its explicit aiding and abetting of such measures.


On 10/12/2014 12:02, doug wrote:


They still believe in their own lies...even though they have been exposed as myths so many times. What kind of people are they? Don't they even read the eminent research which has been carried out in their own country, that there are better ways of obtaining information from suspects? There is a whole science devoted to the subject.

Also, why did they only allow CIA officers with a previous record of abuse and violence and personality disorders to become the interrogators, without any training in any form of interrogation, advanced or otherwise? Why wasn't it overseen, why weren't records kept. One would have thought that if it was all above board, legal, justifiable, and heaven forbid, moral and ethical and in the kidnapped'ts best interests as well as that of the nation, that there would have been plenty of records kept; if only to prove that it worked in theory and practice, and to show that no illegal practices had been used. Instead they illegally destroyed even the videos made of the torture..because they said they were valueless. A new meaning for the word "incriminating" more like.

I seem to remember one story on Cryptome, where one female CIA officer, rather high up the heirarchy who was part of a team trying to catch Bin Laden was so keen to get to the interrogations that she moved rock and stone to get there. I wonder if it was satisfying and what information did she receive after the 187th time the suspect was water boarded. Did it help her to catch Bin Laden and to win the war on terrorism. Nice to know that there is equality between the sexes at the CIA.

$80 million dollars paid to a couple of inexperienced psychologists...to make sure that the program was done credibly and with respectability? A total of $180 million spent on the programme!

Why did they involve so many other countries in their "extaordinary rendition" trips and pay to have bases built in some of the most respectable as well as nefarious countries in the world. Why not have them on US territory? After all it was all legal.

I remember too, here in the UK the overflights and stopovers by privately hired areoplanes carrying out the extraordinary rendition, was denied by Jack Straw, the then Foreign Secretary. It took aeroplane fanatics who took photos and accessed flight records to prove that they had happened. The UK of course, has signed the Human Rights Act and as signatory to the European Convention on Human Rights and supports the European Court of Human Rights. No torture, no support for torture. We were supposed to have learned our lessons from using similar methods against IRA suspects way back in the "troubles".

Have no crimes been committed here? Will no one be prosecuted for crimes against humanity? Will the US still wage war and interfere in other countries in the name of Enduring Freedom and Human Rights... Begins to sound a bit hollow, but there you are that is politics for you...

It is as well to remember that the greatest advocates for human rights were the US prosecutors at the Nuremburg trials of the Nazis. "Obeying lawful orders does not excuse abuse of the higher human right to life"...Jackson...Leading US Prosecutor.

see url: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/keywords/nuremberg.html


Ah! Well! At least these human beings aren't cats...they didn't eat their prey.

*_PRIVACY IS A BASIC RIGHT - NOT A CONCESSION _* https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/11/when-time-comes-we-need-be-ready-fight-tpps-secret-anti-user-agenda

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