[bksvol-discuss] Re: M dash, how to make it?

  • From: "Julie Morales" <mercy421@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 15:45:19 -0400

Hi, Evan. The only problem with a global replace like that is what happens 
to properly-hyphenated words. When you replace a single dash with a double 
dash, that's going to change all of those words, too, and you don't want 
that. Take care.
Julie Morales
Email:
mercy421@xxxxxxxxxxx
Windows/MSN Messenger only (no email): mercy0421@xxxxxxxxxxx
Skype: mercy0421
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Evan Reese" <mentat1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 3:35 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: M dash, how to make it?


I don't know what the Braille translator does with them.  As I recall,  it
either doesn't display them properly, or it only puts in one dash instead of
two, which is what you should have in the Braille file.  I do know that in
books I scan and read as rtf files, they are not properly displayed on my
Pac Mate.  I generally convert them to double dashes with a quick search and
replace all in Word before sending them up to Bookshare.

I'm not changing that.  I don't see why Braille readers should have to
suffer through crummy-looking text because someday some future software
upgrade just might fix the problem - assuming there is one.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Scott Blanks" <scottsjb@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 11:31 AM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: M dash, how to make it?


> I'm curious though, which comes out better in braille: m dash, or double
> dash? Does it matter? I seem to specifically remember several people on
> this list encouraging the conversion of m dashes to double dashes for the
> benefit of braille readers.
>
> Can anybody comment?
>
> Scott
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Pratik patel" <pratikp1@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 10:39 AM
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: M dash, how to make it?
>
>
>> Cindy,
>>
>> Please stick with the M-dash character when you enter it.  The automated
>> tools may not support the proper conversion, but, we have to make sure
>> that
>> future versions of those tools do support such conversions.  The em-dash
>> character is a slightly shorter character than the double dash (--).  I
>> know
>> we have been working with the formatting to satisfy the stripper
>> requirement; but we should try to take a conservative approach when
>> editting
>> the original text especially when it comes to formatting.  In some cases,
>> we
>> might have to move words around or make slight font changes but we should
>> avoid making other changes.
>>
>> Pratik
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Pratik Patel
>> Director, CUNY Assistive technology Services (CATS)
>> The City University of New York
>> pratikp1@xxxxxxxxx
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Cindy
>> Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 12:55 AM
>> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: M dash, how to make it?
>>
>> Is Lissi right in what she says about two dashes
>> instead of an em dash being easier to read in braile?
>> What about with Daisy? What should I be doing, em dash
>> or double dash?
>>
>> Cindy
>>
>> --- Estelnalissi <airadil@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Jake,
>>>
>>> Your directions worked perfectly! I'm levitating! We
>>> all know I'm not the
>>> fastest barge on the canal when it comes to
>>> computers, but your instructions
>>> put those m dashes exactly where I needed them.
>>>
>>> The M dash will be especially easy to remember
>>> because it's insert 4 as you
>>> said for jaws, and then tapping e 4 times to reach m
>>> dash and enter not even
>>> having to go to OK!
>>>
>>> Also exciting is the fact I saw a slew of items
>>> listed in the insert 4
>>> dialogue box which may turn out to be useful!!
>>>
>>> The book I'm working on is an Irish memoir. Instead
>>> of using quotes or
>>> apostrophes, there's a dash or m dash before all
>>> quotes and no mark to show
>>> the end of the quote. It's plain in print because
>>> quotes are inserted
>>> farther than the narrative, but I think braille
>>> readers will quickly catch
>>> the pattern.
>>>
>>> While blissfully making my corrections with the new
>>> command, I noticed that
>>> the scanner read these unique indications of quotes
>>> as dash about half of
>>> the time and M dash the other half with some minus
>>> signs thrown in for
>>> variety. The mixture was random so I made a command
>>> decision to use the
>>> simpler dash to indicate quotes. I'm on page 27 now
>>> and all quotes are
>>> uniformly indicated with a single dash, easier for
>>> me and the reader.
>>>
>>> By the way, when this book is approved, I'm going to
>>> mention that while
>>> anyone interested in quirky humor, Irish culture and
>>> recalling life from
>>> 1959 through 1960 something will like this book, but
>>> the POV, and the
>>> father, a kind of hero to the author will really
>>> appeal to the gritty guys
>>> among the members. I'm entranced, but regularly
>>> amused in spite of myself
>>> and grossed out, too.
>>>
>>> Always with love,
>>>
>>> Lissi
>>>
>>> Thanks for helping me to enjoy another break
>>> through!
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Jake Brownell" <jabrown@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 6:52 PM
>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: M dash, how to make
>>> it?
>>>
>>>
>>> > Hi Lissi,
>>> >    There are two easy ways to insert an em-dash
>>> >
>>> > If you're using Microsoft Word, you can press
>>> CTRL+ALT+the minus sign on
>>> > the numpad.
>>> >
>>> > If you're using JAWS, you can press INSERT+4 (the
>>> 4 on the regular
>>> > keyboard) and you'll get a list of symbols. Press
>>> the letter e a few times
>>> > and you'll find em dash, then press enter.
>>> >
>>> > That's all there is to it.
>>> >
>>> > Jake
>>> > ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> > From: "Estelnalissi" <airadil@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> > To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> > Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 5:16 PM
>>> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] M dash, how to make it?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> Dear Volunteer Friends,
>>> >>
>>> >> There was a discussion here about making that
>>> long dash called m dash by
>>> >> Jaws using microsoft word while validating an RTF
>>> file. How to make it
>>> >> with other programs might have been mentioned,
>>> too.
>>> >>
>>> >> What I mostly remember is that it was suggested
>>> that just using 2 dashes
>>> >> comes out better for the braille reader in
>>> Bookshare's BRF file of a
>>> >> book. So, I decided that when I had a choice, I'd
>>> use 2 dashes.
>>> >>
>>> >> However, the book I'm validating is already
>>> packed with m dashes, so if I
>>> >> fix one, I thought it should match them.
>>> >>
>>> >> How do I make an m dash? Occasionally jaws calls
>>> an m dash a minus, and I
>>> >> want to replace the minus signs with m dashes. If
>>> anyone can point me to
>>> >> the answer or remind me how to do this, I'd
>>> appreciate it and save the
>>> >> information in my Bookshare Tips file.
>>> >>
>>> >> While I wait to hear about this, I'll mark the
>>> spot and go on. I'm only
>>> >> on page 12, but this book really motivates me to
>>> make good progress.
>>> >>
>>> >> Hope all of your current endeavors are going
>>> swimmingly. - Smile
>>> >>
>>> >> Always with love,
>>> >>
>>> >> Lissi
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