Hmmm. Sorry, but in the print books I've worked on,
including the one I'm working on now, there are no
spaces between the em dash and the words. In some of
the scans i've valdiated there have been, but it's
been hard to tell of those were em dashes or hhyphens.
As Lissi says, it's hard to see the difference, even
with sight.
I have four solid three-dimensional books sitting on
my desk, and not one of them has spaces on either side
of the em dash. smile
Cindy
--- Evan Reese <mentat1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I just realized that I was wrong about one thing: I
do know what the
Braille translator does with them. I am
concentrating on finals right now,
and I had forgotten that I did look at one book -
excellently scanned, but
where in the print text you would see a space m dash
space such as
conventionally used for putting in an aside in the
middle of a sentence, the
brf file just has a hyphen with no spaces between
the words. Apparently,
noone replaced them and that is what happens. I
just add in the extra dash
as I read along so it looks the way it should.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Evan Reese" <mentat1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 12:35 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: M dash, how to make
it?
>I don't know what the Braille translator does with
them. As I recall, it
>either doesn't display them properly, or it only
puts in one dash instead
>of two, which is what you should have in the
Braille file. I do know that
>in books I scan and read as rtf files, they are not
properly displayed on
>my Pac Mate. I generally convert them to double
dashes with a quick search
>and replace all in Word before sending them up to
Bookshare.
>
> I'm not changing that. I don't see why Braille
readers should have to
> suffer through crummy-looking text because someday
some future software
> upgrade just might fix the problem - assuming
there is one.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Scott Blanks" <scottsjb@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 11:31 AM
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: M dash, how to make
it?
>
>
>> I'm curious though, which comes out better in
braille: m dash, or double
>> dash? Does it matter? I seem to specifically
remember several people on
>> this list encouraging the conversion of m dashes
to double dashes for the
>> benefit of braille readers.
>>
>> Can anybody comment?
>>
>> Scott
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Pratik patel" <pratikp1@xxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 10:39 AM
>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: M dash, how to make
it?
>>
>>
>>> Cindy,
>>>
>>> Please stick with the M-dash character when you
enter it. The automated
>>> tools may not support the proper conversion,
but, we have to make sure
>>> that
>>> future versions of those tools do support such
conversions. The em-dash
>>> character is a slightly shorter character than
the double dash (--). I
>>> know
>>> we have been working with the formatting to
satisfy the stripper
>>> requirement; but we should try to take a
conservative approach when
>>> editting
>>> the original text especially when it comes to
formatting. In some
>>> cases, we
>>> might have to move words around or make slight
font changes but we
>>> should
>>> avoid making other changes.
>>>
>>> Pratik
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Pratik Patel
>>> Director, CUNY Assistive technology Services
(CATS)
>>> The City University of New York
>>> pratikp1@xxxxxxxxx
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Cindy
>>> Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 12:55 AM
>>> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: M dash, how to
make it?
>>>
>>> Is Lissi right in what she says about two dashes
>>> instead of an em dash being easier to read in
braile?
>>> What about with Daisy? What should I be doing,
em dash
>>> or double dash?
>>>
>>> Cindy
>>>
>>> --- Estelnalissi <airadil@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear Jake,
>>>>
>>>> Your directions worked perfectly! I'm
levitating! We
>>>> all know I'm not the
>>>> fastest barge on the canal when it comes to
>>>> computers, but your instructions
>>>> put those m dashes exactly where I needed them.
>>>>
>>>> The M dash will be especially easy to remember
>>>> because it's insert 4 as you
>>>> said for jaws, and then tapping e 4 times to
reach m
>>>> dash and enter not even
>>>> having to go to OK!
>>>>
>>>> Also exciting is the fact I saw a slew of items
>>>> listed in the insert 4
>>>> dialogue box which may turn out to be useful!!
>>>>
>>>> The book I'm working on is an Irish memoir.
Instead
>>>> of using quotes or
>>>> apostrophes, there's a dash or m dash before
all
>>>> quotes and no mark to show
>>>> the end of the quote. It's plain in print
because
>>>> quotes are inserted
>>>> farther than the narrative, but I think braille
>>>> readers will quickly catch
>>>> the pattern.
>>>>
>>>> While blissfully making my corrections with the
new
>>>> command, I noticed that
>>>> the scanner read these unique indications of
quotes
>>>> as dash about half of
>>>> the time and M dash the other half with some
minus
>>>> signs thrown in for
>>>> variety. The mixture was random so I made a
command
>>>> decision to use the
>>>> simpler dash to indicate quotes. I'm on page 27
now
>>>> and all quotes are
>>>> uniformly indicated with a single dash, easier
for
>>>> me and the reader.
>>>>
>>>> By the way, when this book is approved, I'm
going to
>>>> mention that while
>>>> anyone interested in quirky humor, Irish
culture and
>>>> recalling life from
>>>> 1959 through 1960 something will like this
book, but
>>>> the POV, and the
>>>> father, a kind of hero to the author will
really
>>>> appeal to the gritty guys
>>>> among the members. I'm entranced, but regularly
>>>> amused in spite of myself
>>>> and grossed out, too.
>>>>
>>>> Always with love,
>>>>
>>>> Lissi
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for helping me to enjoy another break
>>>> through!
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Jake Brownell" <jabrown@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 6:52 PM
>>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: M dash, how to
make
>>>> it?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > Hi Lissi,
>>>> > There are two easy ways to insert an
em-dash
>>>> >
>>>> > If you're using Microsoft Word, you can press
>>>> CTRL+ALT+the minus sign on
>>>> > the numpad.
>>>> >
>>>> > If you're using JAWS, you can press INSERT+4
(the
>>>> 4 on the regular
>>>> > keyboard) and you'll get a list of symbols.
Press
>>>> the letter e a few times
>>>> > and you'll find em dash, then press enter.
>>>> >
>>>> > That's all there is to it.
>>>> >
>>>> > Jake
>>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>>> > From: "Estelnalissi" <airadil@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> > To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> > Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 5:16 PM
>>>> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] M dash, how to make
it?
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >> Dear Volunteer Friends,
>>>> >>
>>>> >> There was a discussion here about making
that
>>>> long dash called m dash by
>>>> >> Jaws using microsoft word while validating
an RTF
>>>> file. How to make it
>>>> >> with other programs might have been
mentioned,
>>>> too.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> What I mostly remember is that it was
suggested
>>>> that just using 2 dashes
>>>> >> comes out better for the braille reader in
>>>> Bookshare's BRF file of a
>>>> >> book. So, I decided that when I had a
choice, I'd
>>>> use 2 dashes.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> However, the book I'm validating is already
>>>> packed with m dashes, so if I
>>>> >> fix one, I thought it should match them.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> How do I make an m dash? Occasionally jaws
calls
>>>> an m dash a minus, and I
>>>> >> want to replace the minus signs with m
dashes. If
>>>> anyone can point me to
>>>> >> the answer or remind me how to do this, I'd
>>>> appreciate it and save the
>>>> >> information in my Bookshare Tips file.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> While I wait to hear about this, I'll mark
the
>>>> spot and go on. I'm only
>>>> >> on page 12, but this book really motivates
me to
>>>> make good progress.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Hope all of your current endeavors are going
>>>> swimmingly. - Smile
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Always with love,
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Lissi
>>>> >> To unsubscribe from this list send a blank
Email
>>>> to
>>>> >> bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> >> put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the
>>>> subject line. To get a list
>>>> >> of available commands, put the word 'help'
by
>>>> itself in the subject line.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> --
>>>> >> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>> >> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>>> >> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database:
268.8.1/354 -
>>>> Release Date: 6/1/2006
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> > To unsubscribe from this list send a blank
Email
>>>> to
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>>>> >
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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