[bksvol-discuss] Re: M dash, how to make it?

  • From: "Estelnalissi" <airadil@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 14:28:18 -0400

Dear Pratik, Cindy and everyone,

Cindy, please don't change anything you are doing on my account. After validating 20 books as if my life depended upon them, I still don't have the answers and know how to connect what I think I'm creating to the finished product.

For example, in the right and left justification issue. When I read paper braille, it would be horrible to have to skip over all of the wide spaces between words. No matter what the margins or text spacing, National Library for the Blind hard copy braille books always have regular single spaces between words. Paragraphs are indented 2 spaces and the left margin is otherwise left justified in regular text.
I can always count on copyright and pagination.


I don't know how what I upload will be altered before I get it in a BRF file. I like knowing what the print text page numbers are and where paragraphs begin. I need to know when I'm sighting a passage for reference or when indicating passages to sighted readers as in reading discussion groups. I've wondered how bookshare embossed braille books turn out but haven't invested in one to satisfy my curiosity. I've enjoyed the bookshare books I read on my 32 cell refreshable braille display on my braillenote, but I often feel adrift and disconnected to the form of the page. Of course I understand what I'm reading, but I feel like I'm reading disembodied words devoid of paragraphing and orientation on the pages.

These problems are like pebbles in my shoes, but I'm so glad to be walking, to be reading a book I would have had no way of getting in braille, that I concentrate on the positive and enjoy my reading.

But, please, don't change anything because of what I say. I'm in over my head, though bookshare is giving me some amazing lee way and approving my validations, except when I left, Save for Lissi in the titles, deep blush.

Pratik, It's hard to get a bottom line on any question, but I agree I should keep the integrity of the text in tact when I validate.

In the Memoir I'm doing, it did seem on the second reading of the first 25 pages that quotes were indicated by a random use of a single dash, or an m dash. I do know that m dash is longer though my vision can't perceive that now. Having made my command decision to use all single dashes before quotes, on the way to page 41, I realized the use of the m dash wasn't random. The author uses a single dash before whole sentence quotes be they one word long or longer. He uses M dash before quotes that are fragments of sentences, as when they are interrupting or interrupted. The occasional minus signs are definitely scannos and then I can tell by context whether they were meant as single dashes or m dashes. So I've gone back for the third inserting the quote indicators as the publisher intended.

I'm trying to do an honest job...but getting these details exactly right really slows me down.

Also, the spacing seven times before starting every quote is also time consuming!. I'm wanting to find an easy book after this one. Is there such a thing as a book without loopholes? It's a good thing I was gifted with almost endless patience.

Always with love,

Lissi
----- Original Message ----- From: "Pratik patel" <pratikp1@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 1:39 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: M dash, how to make it?



Cindy,

Please stick with the M-dash character when you enter it. The automated
tools may not support the proper conversion, but, we have to make sure that
future versions of those tools do support such conversions. The em-dash
character is a slightly shorter character than the double dash (--). I know
we have been working with the formatting to satisfy the stripper
requirement; but we should try to take a conservative approach when editting
the original text especially when it comes to formatting. In some cases, we
might have to move words around or make slight font changes but we should
avoid making other changes.


Pratik





Pratik Patel
Director, CUNY Assistive technology Services (CATS)
The City University of New York
pratikp1@xxxxxxxxx

-----Original Message-----
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Cindy
Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 12:55 AM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: M dash, how to make it?

Is Lissi right in what she says about two dashes
instead of an em dash being easier to read in braile?
What about with Daisy? What should I be doing, em dash
or double dash?

Cindy

--- Estelnalissi <airadil@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Dear Jake,

Your directions worked perfectly! I'm levitating! We
all know I'm not the
fastest barge on the canal when it comes to
computers, but your instructions
put those m dashes exactly where I needed them.

The M dash will be especially easy to remember
because it's insert 4 as you
said for jaws, and then tapping e 4 times to reach m
dash and enter not even
having to go to OK!

Also exciting is the fact I saw a slew of items
listed in the insert 4
dialogue box which may turn out to be useful!!

The book I'm working on is an Irish memoir. Instead
of using quotes or
apostrophes, there's a dash or m dash before all
quotes and no mark to show
the end of the quote. It's plain in print because
quotes are inserted
farther than the narrative, but I think braille
readers will quickly catch
the pattern.

While blissfully making my corrections with the new
command, I noticed that
the scanner read these unique indications of quotes
as dash about half of
the time and M dash the other half with some minus
signs thrown in for
variety. The mixture was random so I made a command
decision to use the
simpler dash to indicate quotes. I'm on page 27 now
and all quotes are
uniformly indicated with a single dash, easier for
me and the reader.

By the way, when this book is approved, I'm going to
mention that while
anyone interested in quirky humor, Irish culture and
recalling life from
1959 through 1960 something will like this book, but
the POV, and the
father, a kind of hero to the author will really
appeal to the gritty guys
among the members. I'm entranced, but regularly
amused in spite of myself
and grossed out, too.

Always with love,

Lissi

Thanks for helping me to enjoy another break
through!

----- Original Message ----- From: "Jake Brownell" <jabrown@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 6:52 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: M dash, how to make
it?



> Hi Lissi,
> There are two easy ways to insert an em-dash
>
> If you're using Microsoft Word, you can press
CTRL+ALT+the minus sign on
> the numpad.
>
> If you're using JAWS, you can press INSERT+4 (the
4 on the regular
> keyboard) and you'll get a list of symbols. Press
the letter e a few times
> and you'll find em dash, then press enter.
>
> That's all there is to it.
>
> Jake
> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Estelnalissi" <airadil@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 5:16 PM
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] M dash, how to make it?
>
>
>> Dear Volunteer Friends,
>>
>> There was a discussion here about making that
long dash called m dash by
>> Jaws using microsoft word while validating an RTF
file. How to make it
>> with other programs might have been mentioned,
too.
>>
>> What I mostly remember is that it was suggested
that just using 2 dashes
>> comes out better for the braille reader in
Bookshare's BRF file of a
>> book. So, I decided that when I had a choice, I'd
use 2 dashes.
>>
>> However, the book I'm validating is already
packed with m dashes, so if I
>> fix one, I thought it should match them.
>>
>> How do I make an m dash? Occasionally jaws calls
an m dash a minus, and I
>> want to replace the minus signs with m dashes. If
anyone can point me to
>> the answer or remind me how to do this, I'd
appreciate it and save the
>> information in my Bookshare Tips file.
>>
>> While I wait to hear about this, I'll mark the
spot and go on. I'm only
>> on page 12, but this book really motivates me to
make good progress.
>>
>> Hope all of your current endeavors are going
swimmingly. - Smile
>>
>> Always with love,
>>
>> Lissi
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subject line. To get a list
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itself in the subject line.
>>
>>
>>
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Release Date: 6/1/2006
>>
>
> To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email
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>


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