If we take this discussion back to Warrens' starting point, we have actually demonstrated, first hand, how the modern world works. We have a system. It can be a government or a corporate organisation or a recruitment company. It doesn't matter which as they all have to comply with the prevailing paradigm of the system at large. So the politician, or the manager, or the recruiter will compromise what they feel they have to compromise in order to be allowed to remain within the system. The more corrupt the system, the more they have to compromise, and I think many of us would agree that we are seeing rather a lot of compromise these days. The system upholds itself with both written and unwritten rules, and enforces those rules either with a formal legal system or with social pressure. Without force it would collapse. When it comes to compulsory voting, our Westminster system would collapse if we all pulled out, so it must force us to stay within. It does that be forcing us to vote using the legal system, and by using members of the system who want to remain within the system to apply ridicule, abuse, bullying and a range of other social mechanisms to either force compliance or at the very least, enforce silence, so that those of us outside the system cannot further contaminate those within the system. There is never a shortage of individuals willing to use ridicule on behalf of the system against those who operate or at least try to operate outside the system in any one or more of a huge variety of ways. Those of us who refuse injections, never use mainstream medicine, refuse to vote, refuse to take drugs, refuse to eat chemically contaminated food, believe in ghosts, point out chem trails and can tell you exactly what chemicals are in them, belong to a cult, believe in quantum physics, know that the universe is not spinning around the earth - or anything else deemed to be outside the prevailing paradigm of the time, are demonised, which then makes it allowable for the official or unofficial enforcers to use whatever cruelty the culture deems as appropriate to demand compliance. How many in this group railed against (in other words attempted to bully) those of us who admitted that we do not vote, and then how many resorted to ridicule and put down strategies against those who refused to be silenced (oops, that was only me). These are the techniques of the unofficial enforcers. You are all either enforcers or the enforced. Or are you? From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Christine Kent Sent: Thursday, 16 August 2012 7:59 PM To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: atw: Re: OT: Grumbling About Elections... Oh, but I didn't call anyone names. I leave the name calling to greater minds than mine. But you see, you actually DIDN'T understand. You are so far embedded in the party system that you cannot perceive the possibility that the very system is fatally flawed. You are within the paradigm, as I predicted that a number of you would be (note that I did not identify anyone personally as my mind is not great enough to call individuals names). Curiously you can see that the press, a cornerstone of the Westminster system, is fatally flawed, but cannot see that the press and Westminster political structures are two inextricably intertwined parts of the same fatally flawed system. I am outside the paradigm. To me it is all so fatally flawed that nothing can be achieved within in. It is actually a very strange place to be once you have "fallen" out of the system. You can look back in and start to really comprehend what Shakespeare meant by all that "world is but a stage" stuff. You watch people dancing to the piper's tune with bemusement, incomprehension and sometimes shock. You realise that, just as you cannot understand why they are playing this game, they equally cannot understand why you cannot play it any more. I was not abusing anyone, I was bemoaning my own alienation from the game you are all so comfortably playing, and bemoaning the increasing unlikelihood of ever again seeing my own reflection in the mirror of another human soul. You share a common culture, a common perception of good and bad, an agreement to obey the rules imposed upon you by your chosen master. I don't. Now go ahead and ridicule me for being not only emotionally honest but psychologically and spiritually honest too. Go on, I am sure you can find some more juicy names to call me. Christine From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Terry Dowling Sent: Thursday, 16 August 2012 7:11 PM To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: atw: Re: OT: Grumbling About Elections... Ahh Christine, condescension is always good. You don't agree with me, therefore - by definition - you have an inability to comprehend. Christine, I truly admire your skills and even most of your morals and politics. I even enjoy your cook/food books. But almost every time someone disagrees with you, out comes not just the bitterness, but the condescension. Your point is taken. I appreciate your efforts and can see your frustrations. Got to admit, I'm not sure if you're talking about the mistreatment of refugees or if 'torturing children' is just a metaphor. Put it down my inability to comprehend. I'd say that, in such circumstances as you describe, there must almost certainly be a third party or an independent against torturing children - or you're living in a country with 'Democratic' in its name. If there isn't such a party, maybe you need to think about starting one or running for the seat yourself. The thing is that by voting, you might not get exactly what you want straight away, but you can usually try to help make it better than it currently is. [And then you get outvoted. Unfortunately, that's democracy.] To me, doing nothing is equally amoral to voting for bad choices. If you find you're not being heard, you could try that tried and trusted avenue of buying a newspaper or TV station and trampling editorial independence. Cheers, Terry From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Christine Kent Sent: Thursday, 16 August 2012 3:28 PM To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: atw: Re: OT: Grumbling About Elections... . you cannot see how utterly corrupt it is. To vote for any of the current parties is like being offered the vote between torturing children in public and torturing children in private. Please vote for your preferred option. But please sir, I don't want to torture children at all. Bloody well vote for one of the other or stop whinging. NO SIR, I will not vote for torturing children any which way. I will speak against you, I will decry you, I will do anything in my power to stop you, but I will NEVER vote for torturing children. This might seem an extreme example and I already know that some of you cannot think conceptually enough to work out the analogy, but it is valid. This is what you are telling me I must do when you tell me I must vote for one imbecillic and corrupt sell-out or another. .so I know some of you can never, by definition, comprehend the words I say, even though they are such ordinary words. Christine