[access-uk] Re: chip and pin, cash machines and the likeRe: Re: COUNCIL POLICY TO WAIVE SIGNATURE WHEN VOTING BY POST

  • From: "Emma Wright" <emmajane9@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 17:34:29 +0000

It might work, but given that I don't have great feeling in my fingers
already I think they might just make it too difficult to feel the
buttons.  Also, if the cottonis too thin I might still have a
reaction.  I guess I'll stick to keeping my card close at hand and
glaring fiercely to stop anyone trying to mug me for it!

On 14/02/07, Peter Beasley <peter@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Any places I go, the post office to pay my rent, Sainsbury's etc, I do not
> have to hand over my card.  Once I was shown which way to insert the card in
> the device I was ok.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ray's Home" <rays-home@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 4:55 PM
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: chip and pin, cash machines and the likeRe: Re:
> COUNCIL POLICY TO WAIVE SIGNATURE WHEN VOTING BY POST
>
>
> Tesco have always taken customers cards to scan, and I waite for them to
> tell me
> when to enter my PPIN.
>
> Maybe this is peculiar to Tesco alone?
>
> >From Ray
> I can be contacted off-list at:
> mailto:ray-48@xxxxxxxx
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf
> Of Graham Page
>
>
> I have to say I have never been given this advice about cards.  I have just
> handed the card over and if necessary I suppose appeared forceful enough to
> make them take it.
>
> The assistant could guide you to the slot to put your card in I suppose.  It
> all depends on how adaptable and resourceful the assistant is and what if
> any training and general advice has been given.
>
> Many people, irrespective of the amount of sight they have have just not
> been shown the technology so the assistant needs to know how to describe the
> usage of the machine for a start.
>
> If you risk dying though if you touch latex then I suppose that remains the
> more fundamental issue.  I have not heard of this being an issue and blind
> people are often asked about how things like keypads or equipment could be
> made better.  I think that people are not consulted anywhere near as often
> as they should be but the question does arise and it is important to take
> into account issues other people may have when trying to use good design
> practice.
>
> Cheers
>
>
> Graham
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Emma Wright" <emmajane9@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 3:49 PM
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: chip and pin, cash machines and the likeRe: Re:
> COUNCIL POLICY TO WAIVE SIGNATURE WHEN VOTING BY POST
>
>
> I did try your suggestion about asking a shop assistant to help me and
> was told they weren't allowed to touch the customers card any more and
> I had to do it myself.  I guess it depends on store policy, but it did
> put me off a bit!  After that I found out about the latex risk, and
> gave up using chip and pin.  It seems to me that latex is a really
> strange thing to make the buttons from as so many people are allergic
> to it, and many could die instantly if they came into contact with it.
>  The machines are so different that a cover wouldn't work, so for the
> time being I'll make do with signing I guess and try to smile if asked
> for a driving licence again!
>
> On 14/02/07, Graham Page <gpage@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > Hi Emma.
> >
> > Some of this is about confidence and strategy and I suppose some of it
> > relates to trust.
> >
> > I do get out and about a lot because of work and I will buy things in the
> > shops.
> >
> > If we leave aside your alergy to certain kinds of rubber and your
> > difficulty
> > feeling the number 5 I can suggest possible options but these 2 issues
> > alone
> > are in reality perhaps the 2 most important.
> >
> > When I use Chip and Pin, I hand the card to the shop assistant to put in
> > the
> > machine.  The assistant does all the necessary button pressing and tells
> > me
> > when to enter the pin.  there is a gap between the assistant actually
> > putting in the card and pressing any buttons and me being required to
> > enter
> > the pin.  During this time I examine the keypad.  There is almost always a
> > dot on the 5 and the enter key is almost always bottom right and often it
> > has either a circle or a straight line on it.  If there is not a button on
> > the 5 I get the assistant to show me where the button is.
> >
> > I have not been in many shops where the amount of english spoken by the
> > counter staff is so poor that this information cannot be communicated,
> > even
> > in London.
> >
> > I think that I would not like to risk pressing certain kinds of rubber
> > however if I had a phobia of them or if it caused me to have a rash or
> > something.
> >
> > How you get round the alergy problem though is an interesting issue.  If
> > the
> > pads were the same shape and size you could have a cover that goes over
> > the
> > pad I suppose.  Are there some materials that have a tendancy to cause
> > more
> > reactions when touched than others, is rubber or latex one of those
> > materials?
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Graham
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Emma Wright" <emmajane9@xxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 3:20 PM
> > Subject: [access-uk] Re: chip and pin, cash machines and the likeRe: Re:
> > COUNCIL POLICY TO WAIVE SIGNATURE WHEN VOTING BY POST
> >
> >
> > Graham,
> >
> > I can use my local cash machine as my fianc=E9 has shown me how to do
> > it, however, I having tried it I have four problems with chip and pin.
> >  1) Each machine is different and it is very hard to work out where to
> > put the card e.g top, bottom, side, which way around. ) Each machine
> > goes through a different order of what you need to do, some you need
> > to press enter to confirm an amount, then enter your pin, some you
> > enter your pin only.  And you often have to wait while it is
> > processing without knowing when the machine is ready for you to press
> > the next button. 3) The buttons do not have any audio feedback (unlike
> > my local cashpoint) so you can't be sure if they have been pressed
> > hard enough, or at all.  4) Some of the machines have buttons which
> > are made of latex, which I am allergic to and avoid at all costs!  The
> > former three could have been addressed by making machines universally
> > similar (i.e. the card always goes in the bottom of the machine with
> > the chip - which you can feel - towards you and facing up), having the
> > software universal so you always get asked the same questions (or of
> > course it could speak what it wants you to enter but that isn't ever
> > going to happen) and having the buttons beep when you press them.
> > It's a shame it didn't happen.
> >
> > I can't use the paying in machine in my local branch either as the
> > numbers are a flat panel with pictures rather than being individually
> > raised buttons.  Again, poor design.
> >
> > It doesn't help that I don't have great feeling in my fingers and
> > often can't feel the raised dot of the 5.
> >
> > See I'm stuffed!
> >
> > Emma
> >
> > On 14/02/07, Graham Page <gpage@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > Hi emma.
> > >
> > > Could I ask why you can't use chip and pin?  Is it due to physical
> > > reason=
> > s
> > > such as poor feeling in your hands or no hands at all or is it just a
> > > cas=
> > e
> > > of never having been shown?
> > >
> > > I asked this because I met a visually impaired person through work
> > > recent=
> > ly
> > > who could not use chip an pin technology for no good reason than not
> > > bein=
> > g
> > > shown.
> > >
> > > To see what would happen, I tried an experiment.  I had to pay money
> > > into
> > > the natwest recently by cheque and while doing this I asked the
> > > assistant
> > > about this and was told that you just used the number pad though all are
> > > slightly different.  This was probably the assistant just trying to use
> > > h=
> > er
> > > own initiative.  From my experience she is partly right though buttons
> > > ar=
> > e
> > > generally in the same places.  I find that enter is usually bottom right
> > > =
> > and
> > > there is generally a dot or feelable marker on 5.
> > >
> > > If for whatever reason you cannot physically use your hands to access
> > > the
> > > buttons, is there allowance made in shops for you to sign instead?
> > >
> > > Using chip and pin or using your local cash point machine independently
> > > i=
> > s
> > > something rehab officers could help all of us to do, but I suppose they
> > > a=
> > re
> > > often stretched and involved with giving people the confidence to
> > > perform
> > > more basic tasks such as preparing food to eat etc, which are all
> > > particularly important to people who are losing or have just lost their
> > > sight. other things tend to get just left by the wayside because of lack
> > > =
> > of
> > > time and personell I suppose.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Graham
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Emma Wright" <emmajane9@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 2:41 PM
> > > Subject: [access-uk] Re: COUNCIL POLICY TO WAIVE SIGNATURE WHEN VOTING
> > > BY
> > > POST
> > >
> > >
> > > I agree with that, I Have to sign my back card so why not a form for
> > > the council? However, I do worry as I know my signature varies a lot
> > > and its never been queried, even though I can't use chip and pin.  I
> > > guess they see the white stick and realise I might have trouble - I
> > > just hope that if my card gets stolen it isn't by someone else who
> > > looks similarly vulnerable!
> > >
> > > Emma
> > >
> > > On 14/02/07, Carol Pearson <carol.pearson@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > We've recently completed forms, together with our signatures, as our
> > > > Council
> > > > wished to introduce new regulations regarding postal voting.  They
> > > > stat=
> > e
> > > > that they wished to know if our signature differed each time and that,
> > > > =
> > if
> > > > so, an exemption from signing may be in order.
> > > >
> > > > After somewhat of an uphill route (with all the running on our part),
> > > > w=
> > e
> > > > have established that they have looked at our signatures and decided
> > > > to
> > > > send
> > > > us Waiver Forms.
> > > >
> > > > I am really just seeking views of others on list as to whether you
> > > > feel
> > > > it's
> > > > best to have your own signature (which friends are sure cannot be
> > > > reproduced) or to have such a "waiver" so that no signature is
> > > > required=
> > .
> > > >
> > > > I rather feel, after all, that if banks accept our signatures and
> > > > don't
> > > > make
> > > > a fuss, the Council should do likewise.
> > > >
> > > > Any comments are welcome - on or off list.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks.
> > > >
> > > > --
>
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-- 
Emma Jane Wright
School of Sociology and Social Policy
University of Nottingham

emmajane9@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

www.accessingmaterials.org.uk
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