[wisb] Re: Warbler Quiz (long, no sightings)
- From: "Tom Schultz" <trschultz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <pgorman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "Wisconsin Birding Network" <wisbirdn@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2012 15:11:50 -0500
I agree that Ted makes excellent comments and raises important concerns.
Written descriptions of a bird one has observed can be a real challenge, and
also a real art. Certainly not every rare bird will require the same length
of description. Jim Frank's outstanding documentation of the Yellow-browed
Warbler was EXTREMELY thorough -- but this type of lengthy report was
absolutely necessary to describe and sort out identification for a bird that
is SO accidental and unexpected -- even in Alaska or the West Coast, much
less Wisconsin! This type of thoroughness for most rare birds, although
admirable, would be greatly unnecessary to make the case.
I know that Jim was extremely sorry that the bird he observed (with
excellent looks over a good period of time) wasn't able to be photographed,
since photos would've allowed direct examination of the bird by birders who
were more familiar with this Asian species (as well as similar birds). This
is not to say that a lengthy written documentation would've been unnecessary
in this case, but photos would have gone a long way to reassure others who
may have been skeptical about this "outlandish" and truly stunning claim!
(To me, the only comparison I can draw to a documentation challenge this
great -- at least for a Wisconsin birder -- was Randy Hoffman's report of an
Eskimo Curlew observation in Nova Scotia several years ago.)
When documenting a rare species, it is important to be as thorough as you
can be with your description -- and not assume that saying something like
"the bird had a long bill" will be sufficient to convince others that you
made the correct ID during your observation.
Tom Schultz
Green Lake Co.
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Gorman
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2012 2:25 PM
To: Wisconsin Birding Network
Subject: [wisb] Re: Warbler Quiz (long, no sightings)
That article can be read here:
http://digital.library.wisc.edu/1711.dl/EcoNatRes.pp69n03
Peter C. Gorman
Head, University of Wisconsin Digital Collections Center
pgorman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
(608) 265-5291
(Mount Horeb, Dane Co.)
On Aug 21, 2012, at 1:18 PM, Bettie R. Harriman wrote:
> I think Ted's questions are well stated. Jim Frank tried to answer
> some of them in an article he wrote for the Passenger Pigeon a few
> years back. The article, called Rare Bird Documentation, appeared in
> Vol. 69, No. 3, Fall 2007, pages 349-357. He uses his own experience
> of writing up the extrememly rare (for Wisconsin) Yellow-browed
> Warbler that he saw in the fall of 2006.
>
> He gives the step by step process he went through. Give it read.
>
> Bettie Harriman
> Pigeon Editor
>
>
> At 12:47 PM 8/21/2012, Edward Keyel wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I think that Ryan brings up a very important point here. Why are written
>> descriptions so bad? Or, phrased slightly differently, why are they
>> written so poorly? I know that it's certainly something that I struggle
>> with, and if photos are better 95ish% of the time, then I'm not the only
>> one. Some of the questions I'd like to bring up are what makes for a
>> good
>> write-up as well as what makes for being able to make a good write up?
>> Is
>> it enough to say that a bird belongs to a given order//family, or should
>> those traits be explained as well? How much attention has really been
>> paid
>> to the bird itself? Are you learning what the bird actually looks/sounds
>> like (be it shape, color, behavior, etc), or are you just recognizing it?
>>
>> As Ryan mentions, the advantage to photos is that not everyone describes
>> or
>> sees things the same way. Photos (or recordings) give the outside
>> observer(s) a better connection to the subject matter. We also know that
>> photos can be misleading, due to angle, light, behavior, etc, but some of
>> that information can be provided as well to help reduce that. I tend to
>> try to take photos because I know that my written descriptions are weak.
>> Is this a crutch I'm leaning on?
>>
>> It's easy to look in a book, see what traits are pointed out there, and
>> then go ahead and describe those characteristics in a write-up. How does
>> one write a reliable write-up, that doesn't sound like it's taken
>> directlly
>> from a book (be it because a book was directly used or effectively
>> memorized), yet the key points are still addressed?
>>
>> It seems to me that field notes are enormously important, yet I very
>> rarely
>> take them. I'm not sure if it's because I'm too lazy and don't want to
>> take that much time to do so, or if I'm too daunted at the vast task of
>> attempting to write down a myriad of information about one bird, let
>> alone
>> trying to do so for multiple birds. Is my lack of artistic ability such
>> a
>> significant handicap because I'm unable to make accurate sketches and may
>> not be able to process and absorb color and shape behavior well enough?
>> Is
>> my vocabulary also limiting me, because I used choppy instead of snappy?
>>
>> Are there some sample write-ups available for viewing somewhere? Better
>> still, sample write-ups with explanations as to why it is good or bad?
>> What are some of the most frustrating phrases? I have to imagine only
>> getting information like "good view" or "great light" could be very
>> irritating (my apologies for past uses of such simple (for me) and
>> frustrating (for the reviewer) descriptions). Some bad descriptions seem
>> fairly self-explanatorily bad. Look at page such-and-such in so-and-so's
>> book and it looked just like that. Are there others that people seem to
>> think are good descriptions that really aren't?
>>
>> I find that I'm always frustrated when my records are not accepted.
>> However, it's not because "the grumble, grumble records committee didn't
>> accept my record" or because "the stupid e-bird reviewer hates me," but
>> because I couldn't write well enough to convince a group of very
>> experienced birders that I saw the bird I claimed. Especially if I had
>> "good looks" and "great light", one would hope that I should be able to
>> provide the salient points as to why the species is what I say it is, yet
>> sometimes that's not always the case.
>>
>> I suppose that's the beauty of birding though, is that there's always
>> more
>> to learn and people to help you learn it. My apologies if this is too
>> rambly/incoherent.
>>
>> Good birding,
>> Ted Keyel
>> Sun Prairie,
>> Dane County
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 21, 2012 at 10:13 AM, Ryan Brady
>> <ryanbrady10@xxxxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Sorry Al but photos are better than written descriptions 95-99 times out
>>> of 100. Same as seeing the bird in the field? Absolutely not. But
>>> conclusive in many, many, many more cases than written descriptions. And
>>> the alternative is no photo, which yields zero accountability and little
>>> opportunity for anyone to advance on difficult identifications.
>>>
>>> Sorry for the mini-rant, this is one of my pet peeves.
>>>
>>> Ryan Brady
>>> Washburn, Bayfield County, WI
>>> http://www.pbase.com/rbrady
>>>
>>>> From: alschirmacher@xxxxxxxx
>>>> To: wisbirdn@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: [wisb] Re: Warbler Quiz
>>>> Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2012 06:40:15 -0500
>>>>
>>>> While I enjoy warbler quizzes (far more than empid quizzes!), this
>>> series of photos brings a discussion point to mind:
>>>>
>>>> * Relying on photos as the ultimate identification tool is nearly as
>>> fraught with peril as a written description.
>>>>
>>>> Yet it is so tempting!
>>>>
>>>> Al Schirmacher
>>>> Columbus, WI temporarily
>>>> Princeton, MN again next week
>>>>
>>>> PS Many thanks to Wisbirders for their recommendations, directions and
>>> encouragement during my return to Wisconsin. Had the opportunity to get
>>> away on occasion to a variety of spots from Horicon to Madison,
>>> resulting
>>> in 100+ birds and 30+ butterflies, including a life bird, two state
>>> birds
>>> and six year birds. Mom passed yesterday, anticipate returning to
>>> Minnesota
>>> Sunday.
>>>>
>>>> Special thanks to Peter Fissel, he's a trooper!
>>>>
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>>
>>
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