(VICT) Re: Our Latest Adventure: Things I am Still Learning
- From: "Gisele Mesnage" <gisele@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <vi-clicker-trainers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 10:50:11 +1000
Hello Tami, thank you. I'm following the conversation re positive versus
negative techniques with a lot of interest,and I'm finding that much of what is
being said echoes my own observations during the past seven months that I have
had my dog, Katie. Re people who interfere, I have heard it from both sides,
that is, from those who say that I need to be stricter with my dog, and from
those who think it's harsh of me to stop my dog from jumping on the sofa, for
example. In one recent incident, Katie had failed to indicate an up kerb,
causing me to trip. I did what I always do when she does not guide properly, I
went back a few steps and made her repeat the task. Generally, she does it
right the second time, and this correction is usually enough to stop her doing
the same again another time. And so it was that on that occasion, Katie
indicated the up kerb after I made her do it again. Well, this woman bystander
who, unbeknownst to me, had been watching us, called out "Poor dog". I
should not let comments like that get to me, but they do.
I was particularly interested in what you said about your dog reacting badly to
negative corrections. Yesterday, we were out with the same instructor who has
been saying that I don't correct my dog firmly enough. Katie was behaving
quite badly, sniffing a lot and looking around. Anxious to appear to be "doing
something", as you say, I kept checking her leash. The instructor said it was
good that I was not letting Katie get away with anything, but then he added
that the problem was that having to correct the dog all the time like this
would harden the dog, and she would become more and more difficult to handle. I
should really have said something to him at that point, but I just kept walking
on.
Cheers,
Gisele
gisele@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
----- Original Message -----
From: Tamara Smith-Kinney
To: vi-clicker-trainers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 12:49 AM
Subject: (VICT) Re: Our Latest Adventure: Things I am Still Learning
Hear! Hear!
Gisele, I'm glad you stuck to your guns and didn't correct the old-fashioned
way.
There will always be people -- instructors or casual passers by -- who will
insist that if you're not "correcting" you're not doing anything and will
thus feel free to lecture you extensively on how important it is that you
"really get after that dog" and the like. I used to smile through these
encounters and imagine myself beating the interfering moron in question
vigorously about the head and shoulders with my cane. Now I pretty much
stare grimly at the interfering moron in question and imagine myself beating
him/her over the head with a steel-reinforced bully stick. Sigh.
Okay, so I try to educate first in a calm and courteous manner. After that,
there's not much to do but wait for the dumb jerk to get out of my way so I
can get on with working my dog or getting wherever I was going until they
came along...
I confess that I've corrected negatively (though not nearly strong enough to
suit!) to appear to be "doing something." I know better, and of course it
never works. In fact, my dog always reacts badly, so then I have more
problems to deal with. Then I imagine beating myself vigorously about the
head and shoulders... /smile/
Hang in there!
Tami Smith-Kinney
-----Original Message-----
From: vi-clicker-trainers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:vi-clicker-trainers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Karyn and
Thane
Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 10:06 AM
To: Vi-clicker
Subject: (VICT) Re: Our Latest Adventure: Things I am Still Learning
Hi Gisele
Thankyou so much for your kind words. They mean a lot to me. We have worked
hard these past 10 months to get here. It is an exhilarating feeling. I have
also worked hard on my confidence and willingness to go beyond what I was
doing with Met- to see what the world had to offer. Though I am paying
dearly for that trek, the memories it has left me with are priceless.
The way you handled Katie is the clicker trainer way. Most programs are
still caught up in the *pop and jerk* mentality being required to learn by.
I think it would be hard working with an instructor who believes that is how
they learn. If I were to treat Thane in that manner, he would be totally
confused and eventually I can see that he could be one that might melt down
from it. He is a softer nature dog (not quite as soft as Met). For us its
all about making the experience a positive one. Work is made fun this way.
Karyn and Thane
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