[THIN] Re: VMware vs VS2005
- From: "Steve Greenberg" <steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 10:14:14 -0700
I think that there is an importan point being missed here-- Vmware ESX
server and Virtual Center is very, very, very advanced and it is based on
LINUX not Windows!!
Steve Greenberg
Thin Client Computing
34522 N. Scottsdale Rd. suite D8453
Scottsdale, AZ 85262
(602) 432-8649
(602) 296-0411 fax
steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Cláudio Rodrigues
Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 10:10 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: VMware vs VS2005
Exactly. And yes, ESX does not require Windows. GSX does but I think there
is a version available for Linux, as VMWare Workstation has. Correct me if I
am wrong. :-) My point is that no matter what anyone can do, Microsoft will
always have the advantage of making any of their products run better and
faster than anyone else when running these on top of Windows simply because
the OS is proprietary and they are the only ones that do know what is under
the hood and how to get the best out of it.
Cláudio Rodrigues
Microsoft MVP
Windows Technologies - Terminal Services http://www.terminal-services.net
-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Pardee, Michael P.
Sent: November 9, 2004 12:01 PM
To: 'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: [THIN] Re: VMware vs VS2005
Interesting conversation going on here. Use what is right for your
situation. We're using vmWare ESX because we want to run it on 8-way (or
higher) servers with 16GB or memory. I also don't want to have Windows be
my Host operating system. Windows2003 is much better than anything else
Microsoft has done (my opinion) but it is still too fat for me to use as a
host.
Everyone needs to do their diligence and figure out which product works best
for them. There in no "best" answer for everyone. It's like arguing
Windows vs Linux vs OS X. They each have their sweet spots, but each is
defended as passionately as religion.
-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 11:43 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: VMware vs VS2005
How long? Only months after the LEGAL agreement that prevented Microsoft
from having RDP as good as ICA.
I agree GSX is a proven product. But for a 1.0, Virtual Server 2005 is
excellent. Also keep in mind what Microsoft invests on research in one year
is more than VMWare will probably invest in their whole lifetime. Expect
much bigger and faster improvements on the Microsoft end than on VMWare.
Not to mention they own the base OS where both GSX and Virtual Server run...
This gives you an extra advantage as you do understand how your own OS works
WAY better than any third party company.
Cláudio Rodrigues
Microsoft MVP
Windows Technologies - Terminal Services http://www.terminal-services.net
-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Chris Fraser
Sent: November 9, 2004 11:36 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: VMware vs VS2005
Vmware has also lowered the price on GSX in the last couple weeks.
You have your choice between a mature, proven, stable and scalable
consolidation/virtualization platform that has been in the marketplace for
4+ years or basically a v1.0 product from Microsoft.
This type of thing should be _very_ familiar to anyone in the Thin
Client/Server Based Computing biz. How long did it take MS before their
product presented any _real_ threat to Metaframe and ICA, regardless of
pricing and political considerations.
-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Shonk, Joe - Perot
Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 8:00 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: VMware vs VS2005
No, VMware is NOT and emulator... It intercepts and passes instructions
directly to the hardware... That is why it can achieve near hardware speeds
with minimal overhead.
VS2005 can be best compared to VMware GSX... The MS product may be cheaper
now, but we all know how Micro$oft likes to push the limits. Also, VMware
has a solid track record and reputation. If you out grow your GSX
installation, you can migrate to ESX. ESX is in a class all its own.
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Cook [mailto:mc@xxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 6:49 AM
To: 'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: [THIN] Re: VMware vs VS2005
As MSDNaa users we've been running VS2005 since the first beta release and
it's cool. Stinks of being built around Virtual PC but is actually useable
in real world situations, we're test running a couple of TS machines.
Having never used VMWARE enterprise edition I have nothing to compare
although did read a couple of day's ago (on the MS site I seem to recall)
that the Enterprise version of VS2005 is available to certain MSDN members
as an beta / release candidate...
Jim is correct, it does emulate the hardware, have it's own bios etc. and
run's Server 2K3 very well. The only question I have unanswered is this:-
VMware emulated the CPU entirely in software where as (unless I'm mistaken)
VS2005 actually executes the X86 code on the physical CPU in your machine
but somehow protected from the host OS ?????? That's the vauge bit for us,
otherwise the ability to reduce available CPU/Memory resource to the virtual
machines is a major step forward over Virtual PC.
Still no USB support though...
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeremy Saunders [mailto:jeremy.saunders@xxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: 09 November 2004 13:26
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: VMware vs VS2005
Yes...I stand to be corrected. But I'm pretty sure Virtual PC isn't. Well at
least the version I am running isn't.
Cheers,
Jeremy.
"Jim Kenzig
http://thethin.ne
t" To
<jimkenz@concentr thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
ic.net> cc
Sent by:
thin-bounce@freel Subject
ists.org [THIN] Re: VMware vs VS2005
09/11/2004 09:52
AM
Please respond to
thin
Good thing...I was ready to ream you all before I read this. MVS absolutely
can emulate the hardware...it even can dole out a virtual MAC address for
the nic and you have your own machine bios! I can't imagine that many people
have looked at this product since it is so new. How long do you think
before microsoft has an enterprise version capable of comparison to ESX? I'm
guessing by the end of next year...which is where and when you will see your
price dramatically increase. VMWare has been in the game for a while but MS
WILL catch up and do it better because they know the ins and outs of the OS
and what ports and channels need to be tweaked.
JK
lynch00@xxxxxxx wrote:
Actually, I'm going to correct myself, before I look like a complete fool.
The BETA and RC versions did this. The RTM actually does virtualize the
hardware like VMware.
Per the VS 2005 Technical White Paper:
"Virtual Server 2005 emulates a multi-port Adaptec 7870 SCSI controller
with 4 virtual SCSI buses. With virtual SCSI storage enabled, each virtual
machine can connect to more than 56.5 terabytes. Virtual Server 2005
supports 2-node failover clustering between virtual machines by means of
shared SCSI storage."
"Virtual Server 2005 emulates the S3 Trio64 graphics adapter with 4
megabytes (MB) of VRAM for VESA 2.0-compliant VGA and SVGA resolutions, 2-D
acceleration, hardware cursor, and Microsoft DirectXR support."
"Virtual Server 2005 emulates a multi-port Intel 21141 10/100TX Ethernet
controller with 4 virtual network adapters.
? 7; A local virtual network connection does not need to be associated with
a device.
? Virtual machines can also be configured to have no virtual network
connection."
"Virtual Server 2005 emulates an Intel 440BX chip set with PIIX4 and the
following components:
? CMOS
? Real-time clock
? RAM and VRAM
? Memory Controller
? DMA Controller
? PCI Bus
? ISA Bus
? SM Bus
? Power Management
? 8259 PIC
? PIT
"
Chris
> -----Original Message-----
> From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of lynch00@xxxxxxx > Sent:
Monday, November 08, 2004 3:24 PM > To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject:
[THIN] Re: VMware vs VS2005 > > "VS 2005 is NOT hardware independant."
>
> This is true. I completely forgot that Microsoft VS does not > really
virtualize the hardw are as VMware does. It simply > exposes the hardware
to the VM, and you would use the driver > supplied by the HW vendor.
>
> I have been asked numerous times to compare VS2005 to ESX.
> You just cannot. Yes, compare VS2005 to GSX.
>
> Chris
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jeremy Saunders > >
Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 2:57 PM > > To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > >
Subject: [THIN] Re: VMware vs VS2005 > > > > > > > > > > > > Adam, >
> > > You cannot compare VMWare ESX to VS 2005. ESX is an enterprise >
> >
solution.
> > The host for virtual servers under ESX is a highly tuned > Linux
kernel.
> >
> > You can only compare VMWare GSX to VS 2005.
> >
> > One of the biggest bennefit of VMWare virtual servers is > that they
are > > hardware independant. In other words, you can copy a vistual server
> > image from between a laptop, desktop, server class > hardware, etc,
> > and it will run regardless (as long as you have enough > resources for
it).
> > VS 2005 is NOT hardware independant.
> >
> > But of course because of MSDN, or the Select licensing > agreement,
many > > integrators will get so many VS 2005 licenses for free.
> >
> > Make sure you compare apples with apples.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Jeremy.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Adam.Baum@cityofm
> >
> > esa.org
> >
> > Sent by:
> > To
> > thin-bounce@freel thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > > ists.org > > cc > > >
> > > > > Subject > > 09/11/2004 05:50 [THIN] VMware vs > > VS2005
> > >
AM > > > > > > > > > > > > Please respond to > > > > thin > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Attn VMware afficionados, > > >
> > >
What hardware does VM ESX present to a Windows OS? I see that the > >
motherboard is an Intel 440BX. What NIC does it show up as? What > > about
SCSI? Microsoft shows up an an Intel NIC and Adaptec > SCSI. My > > goal
is to build a matrix comparing the two in how the hardware is > >
represented to the guest OS.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > adam
> >
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