[THIN] Re: VMware vs VS2005
- From: "Chris Fraser" <chrisfraser@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 09:10:23 -0800
Yes. There are a few requirements like a SAN, a private GB network and all
physical machines must run the same processor family (ie no VMotion between
Xeon and PIII or Athlon)
Basically it works by using the private network to copy the contents of memory
from 1 ESX server to another. Once these copies are in sync the VM is paused on
1 server and resumed on the other.
_____
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
John Hardwick
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 8:41 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: VMware vs VS2005
I was curious how VMotion works…. Does that mean you can keep them running
and move them without interruption?
John Hardwick
President
nXio, LLC.
913-754-8120 x125
www.nxio.net
_____
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Chris Fraser
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 10:34 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: VMware vs VS2005
Also with VMotion you can migrate the running VMs off any specific OS instance
in case you ever do need to patch.
_____
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Foote, Eric
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 3:20 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: VMware vs VS2005
I would also take into account the underlying "host" O/S, running any
virtualization over a Windows host would imply that the hosted virtuals would
need to come down anytime the host O/S needs to be patched. With Windows as
the host O/S this is a major problem for me. I have been running GSX on Linux
for years and have not had issues with the host O/S patch requirements forcing
my hand.
Eric
-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of
Chris Fraser
Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 1:58 PM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: VMware vs VS2005
Thanks Jim but I don't really consider a workstation-grade PC emulator that
runs on Mac OS to be the same product as a server virtualization/consolidation
tool. While we are at it, why not throw Bochs, Basilisk, Pear PC and MAME into
the thread as they are all workstation grade emulators and therefore must be
good tools for enterprise server consolidation :)
Virtual PC/Mac 1.0 came out in 1997 while VMware Workstation 1.0 came out in
1998 so the gap between releases is not that large.
Here is a good article that discusses the differences between the two
workstation-level products: http://arstechnica.com/reviews/apps/vm.ars
I don't mean to give the impression that I'm bashing VS 2004. I'm sure MS will
make it into a good product. I've used VMware ESX/GSX or 3+ years now in
production environments and I don't see VS as a real alternative to it just yet.
_____
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Jim Kenzig http://thethin.net
Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 9:17 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: VMware vs VS2005
Um here you are wrong again. The product Microsoft is selling has been used on
Macintosh LOOOONG before VMWare existed and was proven long before also.
They purchased connectix.
<http://www.microsoft.com/windows/virtualpc/evaluation/pr_acquire.mspx>
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/virtualpc/evaluation/pr_acquire.mspx
Which was and is a solid product.
JK
Chris Fraser <chrisfraser@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Vmware has also lowered the price on GSX in the last couple weeks.
You have your choice between a mature, proven, stable and scalable
consolidation/virtualization platform that has been in the marketplace for
4+ years or basically a v1.0 product from Microsoft.
This type of thing should be _very_ familiar to anyone in the Thin
Client/Server Based Computing biz. How long did it take MS before their
product presented any _real_ threat to Metaframe and ICA, regardless of
pricing and political considerations.
-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Shonk, Joe - Perot
Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 8:00 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: VMware vs VS2005
No, VMware is NOT and emulator... It intercepts and passes instructions
directly to the hardware... That is why it can achieve near hardware speeds
with minimal overhead.
VS2005 can be best compared to VMware GSX... The MS product may be cheaper
now, but we all know how Micro$oft likes to push the limits. Also, VMware
has a solid track record and reputation. If you out grow your GSX
installation, you can migrate to ESX. ESX is in a class all its own.
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Cook [mailto:mc@xxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 6:49 AM
To: 'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: [THIN] Re: VMware vs VS2005
As MSDNaa users we've been running VS2005 since the first beta release and
it's cool. Stinks of being built around Virtual PC but is actually useable
in real world situations, we're test running a couple of TS machines.
Having never used VMWARE enterprise edition I have nothing to compare
although did read a couple of day's ago (on the MS site I seem to recall)
that the Enter prise version of VS2005 is available to certain MSDN members
as an beta / release candidate...
Jim is correct, it does emulate the hardware, have it's own bios etc. and
run's Server 2K3 very well. The only question I have unanswered is this:-
VMware emulated the CPU entirely in software where as (unless I'm mistaken)
VS2005 actually executes the X86 code on the physical CPU in your machine
but somehow protected from the host OS ?????? That's the vauge bit for us,
otherwise the ability to reduce available CPU/Memory resource to the virtual
machines is a major step forward over Virtual PC.
Still no USB support though...
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeremy Saunders [mailto:jeremy.saunders@xxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: 09 November 2004 13:26
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: VMware vs VS2005
Yes...I stand to be corrected. But I'm pretty sure Virtual PC isn't. Well
at least the versio n I am running isn't.
Cheers,
Jeremy.
"Jim Kenzig
http://thethin.ne
t" To
ic.net> cc
Sent by:
thin-bounce@freel Subject
ists.org [THIN] Re: VMware vs VS2005
09/11/2004 09:52
AM
Please respond to
thin
Good thing...I was ready to ream you all before I read this. MVS absolutely
can emulate the hardware...it even can dole out a virtual MAC address for
the nic and you have your own machine bios! I can't imagine that many
people have looked at this product since it is so new. How long do you
think before microsoft has an enterprise version capable of comparison to
ESX? I'm guessing by the end of next year...which is where and when you
will see your price dramatically increase. VMWare has been in the game for
a while but MS WILL catch up and do it better because they know the ins and
outs of the OS and what ports and channels need to be tweaked.
JK
lynch00@xxxxxxx wrote:
Actually, I'm going to correct myself, before I look like a complete fool.
The BETA and RC versions did this. The RTM actually does virtualize the
hardware like VMware.
Per the VS 2005 Technical White Paper:
"Virtual Server 2005 emulates a multi-port Adaptec 7870 SCSI controller
with 4 virtual SCSI buses. With virtual SCSI storage enabled, each virtual
machine can connect to more than 56.5 terabytes. Virtual Server 2005
supports 2-node failover clustering between virtual machines by means of
shared SCSI storage."
"Virtual Server 2005 emulates the S3 Trio64 graphics adapter with 4
megabytes (MB) of VRAM for VESA 2.0-compliant VGA and SVGA resolutions,
2-D acceleration, hardware cursor, and Microsoft DirectXR support."
"Virtual Server 2005 emulates a multi-port Intel 21141 10/100TX Ethernet
controller with 4 virtual network adapters.
? 7; A local virtual network connection does not need to be associated with
a device.
? Virtual machines can also be configured to have no virtual network
connection."
"Virtual Server 2005 emulates an Intel 440BX chip set with PIIX4 and the
following components:
? CMOS
? Real-time clock
? RAM and VRAM
? Memory Controller
? DMA Controller
? PCI Bus
? ISA Bus
? SM Bus
? Power Management
? 8259 PIC
? PIT
"
Chris
> -----Original Message-----
> From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of lynch00@xxxxxxx
> Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 3:24 PM
> To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [THIN] Re: VMware vs VS2005
>
> "VS 2005 is NOT hardware independant."
>
> This is true. I completely forgot that Microsoft VS does not
> really virtualize the hardw are as VMware does. It simply
> exposes the hardware to the VM, and you would use the driver
> supplied by the HW vendor.
>
> I have been asked numerous times to compare VS2005 to ESX.
> You just cannot. Yes, compare VS2005 to GSX.
>
> Chris
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jeremy Saunders
> > Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 2:57 PM
> > To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [THIN] Re: VMware vs VS2005
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Adam,
> >
> > You cannot compare VMWare ESX to VS 2005. ESX is an enterprise
> > solution.
> > The host for virtual servers under ESX is a highly tuned
> Linux kernel.
> >
> > You can only compare VMWare GSX to VS 2005.
> >
> > One of the biggest bennefit of VMWare virtual servers is
> that they are
> > hard ware independant. In other words, you can copy a vistual server
> > image from between a laptop, desktop, server class
> hardware, etc, and
> > it will run regardless (as long as you have enough
> resources for it).
> > VS 2005 is NOT hardware independant.
> >
> > But of course because of MSDN, or the Select licensing
> agreement, many
> > integrators will get so many VS 2005 licenses for free.
> >
> > Make sure you compare apples with apples.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Jeremy.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Adam.Baum@cityofm
> >
> > esa.org
> >
> > Sent by:
> > To
> > thin-bounce@freel thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> > ists.org
> > cc
> >
> >
> >
> > Subject
> > 09/11/2004 05:50 [TH IN] VMware vs
> > VS2005
> > AM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Please respond to
> >
> > thin
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Attn VMware afficionados,
> >
> > What hardware does VM ESX present to a Windows OS? I see that the
> > motherboard is an Intel 440BX. What NIC does it show up as? What
> > about SCSI? Microsoft shows up an an Intel NIC and Adaptec
> SCSI. My
> > goal is to build a matrix comparing the two in how the hardware is
> > represented to the guest OS.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > adam
> >
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