[THIN] Re: VMWare Server Sizing
- From: "Ron Oglesby" <roglesby@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 20:34:11 -0600
Just a note on this=20
>eDirectory and Zen works will be integrated into the farm as well so I
=3D can use Zen for the scripted build side of things.
Why? If you are talking about the BASE Citrix OSs. I mean VMware can use
what they call "Golden masters" really images and its s simple file copy
to bring up a new VM server. Hardware is not an issue so its no big deal
at all (like when using real hardware you script installs to handle
that.
That is unless you are talking of application deployment. Then it can be
a different story. Of course I generally see ZEN as a problem for app
deployment on terminal servers since it is geared toward a single user
desktop and not a multi user server.
ANYWAY, My 2 cents, dump them if you want
First Cent: Take a LONG HARD look from a cost benefit perspective if
VMware is going to save you any money here or if it is being done
because "we think it will save money and is cool".=20
I have done two looks at this for large farms and on the primary silo
side of things it almost never adds up to save any money (remember
VMWare, makes use of all hardware for under utilized servers, or test
environment etc. When you run the servers at 90 or 100% and are
processor /memory bound you are still paying a 2-3% penalty using ESX
and adding a substantial cost in dollars per processor. If you are
having to factor in DR as in a real hot site then VMware still doesn't
factor in to save money since you have to buy and maintain that hardware
anyway. Its not like in that case you are porting to unknown hardware.
Second Cent: The real problem with a huge farm (100s of thousands of
users would be the largest farm in the world, and Citrix ,at the current
FR level, doesn't want you to go too much beyond 400 servers in a farm).
Anyway the huge farm problem is NOT OS deployment or hardware its Too
many silos, Patch management, monitoring and application
deployment/updates.=20
In the project we are working on now (900 server environment split
between datacenters) Automated installs are easy (for sure with HP and
RDP). It's the whole life patch management and application deployment.=20
If App deployment is something you need to look at (and I think it is)
you should try out softricity and see what it gets you.=20
Just some thoughts. I am not against VMware I just hate to see people ad
another layer of complexity and cost just because they get an idea that
they have too for DR or any other reason.
Ron Oglesby
Senior Technical Architect
Microsoft MVP, Windows Server=20
=20
RapidApp
Office 312.372.7188
Mobile 815.325.7618
email roglesby@xxxxxxxxxxxx
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Lyne [mailto:Tony.Lyne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]=20
Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 3:08 PM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: VMWare Server Sizing
Well it sounds like ESX is the way to go then for this client. I will =
=3D
get hold of a copy and look at scripting options with it for deployment.
I do have to scope this farm to expand, as they intend on making the =3D
farm available to possibly 100s of thousands of users globally in the =
=3D
long term. The farm will span Australia and NZ as well.
eDirectory and Zen works will be integrated into the farm as well so I =
=3D
can use Zen for the scripted build side of things.
Tony Lyne
Senior Systems Engineer=3D20
Computerland Central=3D20
P O Box 1470=3D20
PALMERSTON NORTH
Telephone (+64) 06 3537300
Facsimile (+64) 06 3566800
Mobile (+64) 0274 720696
E-mail Tony.Lyne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Internet http://www.computerland.co.nz
CAUTION: This e-mail message and accompanying data may contain =3D
information that is confidential and subject to privilege. If you are =
=3D
not the intended recipient, you are notified that any use, =3D
dissemination, distribution or copying of this message or data is =3D
prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me
=3D
immediately and delete all material pertaining to this e-mail. Thank =3D
you.
=3DA0
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Greenberg [mailto:steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]=3D20
Sent: Monday, 23 February 2004 8:44 a.m.
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: VMWare Server Sizing
On very similar hardware we have a client running four virtual machines
=3D
=3D3D
and
there is plenty of resources still available. It is going to depend =
=3D3D
entirely
on the load you require, but for non-resource intensive applications 10
=3D
=3D3D
or
15 machines is quite possible. Keep in mind that you will not gain
performance as a whole, you will just have the ability to divide the
resource up into multiple servers. This is based on using ESX server, on
=3D
=3D3D
GSX
you should expect lower overall performance on the virtual machines.
I see the benefit as being able to host multiple functions on the same
hardware. The customer we are working on this has a low Citrix user =
=3D3D
count,
but does not want to have to buy hardware for a dedicated data =3D3D
collector,
web server and other light duty functions unrelated to Citrix that they.
=3D
=3D3D
As
a result, they run two ESX servers, maintain a redundant Citrix farm =
=3D3D
with a
dedicated data collector, and, have resources available for other =3D3D
servers
that they would otherwise need to buy and dedicate hardware for.
Regards,
Steve Greenberg
Thin Client Computing
34522 N. Scottsdale Rd. suite D8453
Scottsdale, AZ 85262
(602) 432-8649
(602) 296-0411 fax=3D3D20
steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On =
=3D
=3D3D
Behalf
Of Tony Lyne
Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 1:04 PM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] VMWare Server Sizing
Guys,
=3D3D20
Im in the middle of designing a Citrix farm for a client and it seems =
=3D
=3D3D
the
VMWare subject has been thrashed around here quite a bit. But one thing
=3D
=3D3D
I
can find is the number is VMware sessions that should be run per server
before serious performance issues are hit.
=3D3D20
The farm will be running Linux then Vmware on that which will be =3D3D
launching
multiple VMWare Win2k3 server sessions with MFXPa/e.=3D3D20
=3D3D20
If they will only be doing the basic work like MS Office and other =3D3D
office
applications, typically from experience how many VMware sessions would
people expect to get per server before they notices a performance hit?
=3D3D20
The server kit will be DL360G3's with 4GB RAM and mirrored disks.
=3D3D20
I was expecting to start with each server running 2 VMware sessions each
=3D
=3D3D
and
see how that goes.
There will most likely be vertical application servers as well.
=3D3D20
Tony Lyne
Senior Systems Engineer=3D3D20
Computerland Central=3D3D20
P O Box 1470=3D3D20
PALMERSTON NORTH
Telephone (+64) 06 3537300
Facsimile (+64) 06 3566800
Mobile (+64) 0274 720696
E-mail Tony.Lyne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Internet http://www.computerland.co.nz =3D
<http://www.computerland.co.nz/>=3D3D20
CAUTION: This e-mail message and accompanying data may contain =3D3D
information
that is confidential and subject to privilege. If you are not the =3D3D
intended
recipient, you are notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or
copying of this message or data is prohibited. If you have received this
e-mail in error, please notify me immediately and delete all material
pertaining to this e-mail. Thank you.
=3D3D20
=3D3D20
=3D3D20
=3D3D20
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