[THIN] Re: VMWare Server Sizing
- From: "Ron Oglesby" <roglesby@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 15:26:11 -0600
This is really in regards to those enormous farms and the Datastore, ZDC
sizing and limits citrix will and wont sign off on.
Sure hit me off list. No public discussions of this thing.
Ron Oglesby
Senior Technical Architect
Microsoft MVP, Windows Server=20
=20
RapidApp, Chicago
Office 312.372.7188
Mobile 815.325.7618
email roglesby@xxxxxxxxxxxx
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: M [mailto:mathras@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]=20
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 3:26 PM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: VMWare Server Sizing
cough** cough** cheeky Brit question here...
Ron,
Could that offer be expanded to another ? ( i wont be offended if the
answer
is no)
Im hearing loads about VMware /Citrix /server consolidation but have
zero
idea about sizing etc etc
regards
----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Ron Oglesby" <roglesby@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 9:16 PM
Subject: [THIN] Re: VMWare Server Sizing
Tony,
e-mail me off list about the "one big farm" idea. I have some insight
from Citrix test and CCS on the size limitations in the current
architecture. If you are really looking at 100's of thousands of users
we should get together so I can give you some ideas and knowledge that
was passed to me.
Ron Oglesby
Senior Technical Architect
Microsoft MVP, Windows Server=3D20
=3D20
RapidApp, Chicago
Office 312.372.7188
Mobile 815.325.7618
email roglesby@xxxxxxxxxxxx
=3D20
-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Lyne [mailto:Tony.Lyne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]=3D20
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 3:05 PM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: VMWare Server Sizing
If this project kicks off and Im sure it will be successful it will most
=3D3D
certainly be a reference site for all of NZ, but that's not what this =
=3D
=3D3D
thread is about.=3D3D20
We will be doing a pilot, especially for an implementation of this size,
=3D3D
as this project will be considered a large server farm even by =3D3D
international standards, so will need to be Project Managed properly by
=3D3D
us. That's what I mean by well see how it goes.
Hardware costs versus VMware licensing costs is irrelevant in this =3D3D
project as they get special pricing due to their line of business.
I don't believe the RSL is the reason why VMware shouldn't be considered
=3D3D
in this case. There will still be areas of splashing out lots of $$$ for
=3D3D
hardware which will potentially be under utilized. Where by running say
=3D3D
2-5 sessions would make more effective use of hardware at less of a cost
=3D3D
to the client.
Having said that its still yet to be proven in the POC but the initial =
=3D
=3D3D
planning looks very favorable.
RON, Zen will be used as the deployment/patch management component of =
=3D
=3D3D
the farm. Zen is very much like Altiris now. I initially speced Altiris
=3D3D
to do the patch management/automated installs and maintenance, using our
=3D3D
own methodologies we have devised. But thought what's the point, its =
=3D3D
another layer of unneeded complexity and expense where Zen can do all of
=3D3D
this for this client, as they already have it, so well change out =3D3D
methodologies to suit.
It's also not going to be one big farm but so far 2 farms spanning =3D3D
various cities and countries. My main concerns is weather the Telco can
=3D3D
garatuee data through-put rates and what other traffic the IMA will have
=3D3D
to contest with on the WAN. So may have to look at packet shaping and =
=3D
=3D3D
queuing.=3D3D20
The pilot phase will be only a few hundred users and from what I have =
=3D
=3D3D
gathered yesterday the number of concurrent users will drop to possibly
=3D3D
under a thousand. My how things have changed over the past few days.
Anyway its still in the planning/consulting phase at the mo, so will be
=3D3D
a few weeks before things start moving properly.=3D3D20
Tony Lyne
Senior Systems Engineer=3D3D20
Computerland Central=3D3D20
P O Box 1470=3D3D20
PALMERSTON NORTH
Telephone (+64) 06 3537300
Facsimile (+64) 06 3566800
Mobile (+64) 0274 720696
E-mail Tony.Lyne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Internet http://www.computerland.co.nz
CAUTION: This e-mail message and accompanying data may contain =3D3D
information that is confidential and subject to privilege. If you are =
=3D
=3D3D
not the intended recipient, you are notified that any use, =3D3D
dissemination, distribution or copying of this message or data is =3D3D
prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me
=3D3D
immediately and delete all material pertaining to this e-mail. Thank =
=3D3D
you.
=3D3DA0
-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas, Jeremy [mailto:Jeremy.Thomas@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]=3D3D20
Sent: Monday, 23 February 2004 11:10 p.m.
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: VMWare Server Sizing
Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but...
I thought that the main advantage of using VMware with Terminal Servers
=3D3D
w=3D3D3D
as that you would make the servers more scalable by allowing more users
=3D3D
t=3D3D3D
o log on to the same hardware before you reach the Registry Size Limit =
=3D
=3D3D
(2=3D3D3D
00-250 users). As this limitation has gone with Windows 2003, why use =
=3D
=3D3D
VMw=3D3D3D
are.
The other reason would be so you can run lots of vertical servers with =
=3D
=3D3D
di=3D3D3D
fferent applications and just a few users on each, but I don't think you
=3D3D
=3D3D3D
want to do that...
As the RSL issue has gone, then the servers are able to support as many
=3D3D
u=3D3D3D
sers with 2 VM TSs running per machine as they are with a base TS =3D3D
running=3D3D3D
=3D3D3D2E You still have 4Gb, 2 processors (that you CAN run =3D
hyperthreading
=3D3D
on)=3D3D3D
, and the same disks. Why on earth would you want to consider an extra =
=3D
=3D3D
la=3D3D3D
yer of complexity on these servers?
For a 5000+ user farm, you need to get your design checked and approved
=3D3D
b=3D3D3D
y MS, Citrix and the Hardware supplier. Uptime and supportability should
=3D3D
=3D3D3D
be very important, and if you intend scaling it much further, it would =
=3D
=3D3D
ce=3D3D3D
rtainly become a showcase project for NZ. Therefore, you'd want to get =
=3D
=3D3D
yo=3D3D3D
ur suppliers involved ASAP. Adding VMware as well is an added layer of =
=3D
=3D3D
co=3D3D3D
mplexity.
"I was expecting to start with each server running 2 VMware sessions =
=3D3D
each
and see how that goes."
Don't rely on "see how it goes" - test and KNOW just how far you can go.
=3D3D
=3D3D3D
Mind you, quite how you do that needs a seperate thread.
Regards,
Jeremy Thomas
-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Lyne [mailto:Tony.Lyne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: zondag 22 februari 2004 21:04
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] VMWare Server Sizing
Guys,
=3D3D3D20
Im in the middle of designing a Citrix farm for a client and it seems
the VMWare subject has been thrashed around here quite a bit. But one
thing I can find is the number is VMware sessions that should be run per
server before serious performance issues are hit.
=3D3D3D20
The farm will be running Linux then Vmware on that which will be
launching multiple VMWare Win2k3 server sessions with MFXPa/e.=3D3D3D20
=3D3D3D20
If they will only be doing the basic work like MS Office and other
office applications, typically from experience how many VMware sessions
would people expect to get per server before they notices a performance
hit?
=3D3D3D20
The server kit will be DL360G3's with 4GB RAM and mirrored disks.
=3D3D3D20
I was expecting to start with each server running 2 VMware sessions each
and see how that goes.
There will most likely be vertical application servers as well.
=3D3D3D20
Tony Lyne
Senior Systems Engineer=3D3D3D20
Computerland Central=3D3D3D20
P O Box 1470=3D3D3D20
PALMERSTON NORTH
Telephone (+64) 06 3537300
Facsimile (+64) 06 3566800
Mobile (+64) 0274 720696
E-mail Tony.Lyne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Internet http://www.computerland.co.nz =3D3D
<http://www.computerland.co.nz/>=3D3D3D20
CAUTION: This e-mail message and accompanying data may contain
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dissemination, distribution or copying of this message or data is
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you.
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