[sys-func] Re: The Experiential and Logical Relational Architecture of SFL Theory

  • From: "David Rose" <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> ("david.rose")
  • To: "sys-func@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <sys-func@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 26 May 2022 21:00:33 +0000

Also David K
Re your desire for ‘yet another dimension--the ontogenetic’, all strata also 
individuate! ... further from
Martin, J. R. (2009). Realisation, instantiation and individuation: some 
thoughts on identity in youth justice conferencing. DELTA: Documentação de 
Estudos em Lingüística Teórica e Aplicada, 25, 549-583.

[cid:image002.png@01D87192.0DD42340]

Where Halliday in the 1970s saw grammar emerging ontogenetically between 
phonology and semantics, with the appearance of metafunctions, another 
perspective has the content plane bifurcating into LG and DS to enable extended 
exchanges.

Rose, D. (2006). A systemic functional approach to language evolution. 
Cambridge Archaeological Journal, 16(1), 73-96.


From: sys-func-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <sys-func-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> on behalf 
of David Rose <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Thursday, 26 May 2022 at 2:43 pm
To: sys-func@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <sys-func@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [sys-func] Re: The Experiential and Logical Relational Architecture of 
SFL Theory
Check out Clare Painter’s work on interpersonal lg development, from a 
discourse semantic perspective

http://www.grammatics.com/appraisal/textspecial/painter-ontogenic.pdf<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/pVSxCQnMBZf63zly6sxutMY?domain=grammatics.com>

[cid:image001.png@01D8710E.B7D378C0]

David

From: sys-func-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <sys-func-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> on behalf 
of 데이브드켈로그_교수_영어교육과 <dkellogg60@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wednesday, 25 May 2022 at 12:20 pm
To: sys-func@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <sys-func@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [sys-func] Re: The Experiential and Logical Relational Architecture of 
SFL Theory
Actually, Peter, I think that t'other David has put his finger on the precise 
reason I can't use "discourse semantics" or "genre" in my own work, which is 
about the development of language from birth to adolescence in Korean children.

Yes, every stratum instantiates: the meaning potential of the whole system 
eventually instantiates as an individual Korean idiolect, the wording potential 
of the Korean language instantiates as a specific Korean clause, and the 
sounding potential instantiates as a particular tonal accent. All that's true.

But to capture how the idiolect, the clause, and the accent develop requires 
yet another dimension--the ontogenetic. I usually study what Vygotsky calls 
"genetic sections"--that is, moments of comparable discourse taken in the first 
year of life, in early childhood, in preschool and K through 12. Discourse 
semantics lies in one place on the cline of instantiation. The kind of verbal 
thinking I'm interested in tracing is further along the line, I think, and I 
don't see that "genre" is helpful at all since there's no such thing as an 
individual genre.

I also think that the number of strata, like the points on the cline of 
instantiation, depend not only on the purpose of the model but also on the 
moment of development. For the first year of life, two strata (sounding and 
meaning) will do. For adolescents and adults, it's often useful to distinguish 
more than three strata, e.g. between phonetics (what the kids are actually 
doing as measured with PRAAT) and phonology (what they think they are doing as 
measured by how people react). The late, great Bill Greaves taught me how to do 
this; fortunately, the book he co-authored with Halliday (2008) is still 
available.

dk

2022년 5월 25일 (수) 오전 8:35, David Rose 
<dmarc-noreply-outsider@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:dmarc-noreply-outsider@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>님이
 작성:
Never say never again! The past always meets the future eventually 😊
David

From: sys-func-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:sys-func-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
<sys-func-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:sys-func-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> on behalf 
of Peter White <prr.white@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:prr.white@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
Date: Tuesday, 24 May 2022 at 8:09 pm
To: sys-func@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:sys-func@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
<sys-func@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:sys-func@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>, 
sys-func@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:sys-func@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
<sys-func@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:sys-func@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
Subject: [sys-func] Re: The Experiential and Logical Relational Architecture of 
SFL Theory
Never the twain shall meet. Me thinks contrary categorical assertions at ten 
paces.
Peter

----------------
Dr Peter R. R. White
School of Arts and Media
University of New South Wales,
Sydney, Australia
prr.white@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:prr.white@xxxxxxxxxxx>
www.languageofevaluation.info/appraisal<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/RobjCROND2urR70zrHN14JB?domain=languageofevaluation.info>
-----------------

------ Original Message ------
From: "David Rose" 
<dmarc-noreply-outsider@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:dmarc-noreply-outsider@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
To: "sys-func@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:sys-func@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>" 
<sys-func@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:sys-func@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
Sent: 24/05/2022 11:52:56 AM
Subject: [sys-func] Re: The Experiential and Logical Relational Architecture of 
SFL Theory

All strata instantiate!
David

Martin, J. R. (2009). Realisation, instantiation and individuation: some 
thoughts on identity in youth justice conferencing. DELTA: Documentação de 
Estudos em Lingüística Teórica e Aplicada, 25, 549-583.

Martin, J. R. (2010). Semantic variation: Modelling realisation, instantiation 
and individuation in social semiosis. New discourse on language: Functional 
perspectives on multimodality, identity, and affiliation, 1, 34.


[cid:180f8f509b3692e334]
[cid:180f8f509b34cff313]



From: sys-func-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:sys-func-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
<sys-func-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:sys-func-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> on behalf 
of 데이브드켈로그_교수_영어교육과 <dkellogg60@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:dkellogg60@xxxxxxxxx>>
Date: Monday, 23 May 2022 at 5:44 pm
To: sys-func@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:sys-func@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
<sys-func@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:sys-func@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
Subject: [sys-func] Re: The Experiential and Logical Relational Architecture of 
SFL Theory
The distinction between realization and instantiation (in Vygotsky, the 
distinction between abstraction and generalization) is actually the result of 
applying the categories of logico-semantic relationship that we apply to 
non-technical language to our own technical terms, "realization" and 
"instantiation".  So THIS is what Firth meant when he said that linguistics has 
no ontological status; it is simply language folded back on itself.

I remember how shocked I was when I first heard someone from the Sydney School 
argue that genre was "realized" as context and context was "realized" as 
discourse semantics. It only made sense to me when I heard Martin describe his 
version of systemic-functional linguistics as anti-psychological. But for that 
very reason I think that this confusion of instantiation and realization is 
really the equivalent, in SFL, of confusions of development (e.g. a child's 
semantic development) with learning (e.g. classroom discourse) in discussions 
of Vygotsky's ZPD in cultural-historical psychology.

Halliday always said that the concept of "mind" is not really necessary for 
SFL, but he never said that about consciousness.

dk

2022년 5월 23일 (월) 오전 8:04, Dr ChRIS CLÉiRIGh 
<c.cleirigh@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:c.cleirigh@xxxxxxxxx>>님이 작성:
Dear Colleagues,

The following tables from Halliday & Matthiessen (1999: 145-6) might be useful 
for anyone interested in deepening their understanding of the architecture of 
SFL Theory. The first shows that realisation, the relation between strata, and 
between axes, is an elaborating (intensive) identifying relation, and that 
instantiation, the relation between text and text type/register, and between 
text type/register and language, is an elaborating (intensive) attributive 
relation.

Delicacy and rank (composition), on the other hand, can be construed as either 
identifying or attributive (ascriptive).

types of elaboration:
[cid:180f8f509b3ee52723d1]

types of extension:
[cid:180f8f509b3ee6089be2]

--

dr chris cléirigh
Teaching how to think: education
Teaching what to think: indoctrination


====================================
My Linguistics Sites
Deploying Functional 
Grammar<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/CCq1CVARKgCl5OkRlfyc0IJ?domain=deployingfunctionalgrammar.blogspot.com/>
Martin's Model Of 
Paralanguage<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/62lyCWLVXkUjPlXWjinT1Mw?domain=sflparalanguage.blogspot.com/>
Informing 
Thoughts<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/kJGoCXLW2mUnqpDznTmCep-?domain=informingthoughts.blogspot.com.au/>
Making Sense Of 
Meaning<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/sQxjCYW8Noc3NGp43uZGc9c?domain=meta-sfl-theory.blogspot.com/>
Systemic Functional 
Linguistics<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/eu1tCZY1NqiMDO8pMuXmhvo?domain=systemictheory.blogspot.com/>
Sys-Func<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/WlMIC1WLPxcpkvB9pSOs1YX?domain=sys-func.blogspot.com.au/>
Sysfling<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/pKL0C2xMQzikRnZ9kFL-iBK?domain=sysfling.blogspot.com.au/>
The Thought 
Occurs<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/5UwCC3QNPBimGL9Emsp-xGr?domain=thethoughtoccurs.blogspot.com.au/>…
Thoughts That Cross My 
Mind<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/M0bnC4QOPEiJmL9vJF5MqLg?domain=thoughts-that-cross-my-mind.blogspot.com.au/>
Martin's Discourse Semantics, Register & 
Genre<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/jt9jC5QPXJi0xqpD0uVQqC7?domain=discourse-semantics.blogspot.com.au/>
Thoughts That Didn't 
Occur<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/JCspC6XQ4Lfo1Q0BouQlKqU?domain=master-bateman.blogspot.com.au/>…
Working With Discourse: Meaning Beyond The 
Clause<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/FksQC71R2NTmQ3VJms1wVmR?domain=workingwithdiscourse.blogspot.com.au/>
The Cardiff 
Grammar<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/D6pQC81V0PTjznPKjilVayB?domain=cardiff-grammar.blogspot.com.au/>
Lexis As Most Local 
Context<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/Gc4-C91WPRTmMoNpmsVsz0M?domain=lexisasmostlocalcontext.blogspot.com/>
Factoring Out 
Structure<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/0eVqC0YKPvi2M6gL2I879cz?domain=yaegandoran.blogspot.com/>
Attitude In Systemic Functional 
Linguistics<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/FTUHCgZ0N1ilmVw7lf5Sto5?domain=attitude-in-sfl.blogspot.com.au/>
====================================


--
David Kellogg
Sangmyung University
,
New article in Mind, Culture, and Activity:

Vygotsky’s pedology of the adolescent: the discovery of sex and the invention 
of 
love<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/ogvBCjZ1N7ij3pGvjiqP6a8?domain=url310.tandfonline.com>

50 free online copies  available at:

https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/CTJKPMUKGBANU5SNYG8T/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2022.2030362<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/vuTSCk81N9tnrmXpnTjLJIx?domain=tandfonline.com>
New article with Irina Leopoldoff-Martin and Bernard Schneuwly.: "Developing 
Concepts of Development in Vygotsky’s pédologie: Introduction to the Special 
Issue" in Mind, Culture and Activity.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2022.2026972<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/7geJClx1NjioAgPvouE4_D6?domain=tandfonline.com>

50 free online copies  available at:

https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/DNZTW3URNHIIMCYBKWX6/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2022.2026972<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/ZSxQCmO5glu5AEPr5IWyfNi?domain=tandfonline.com>

New book of translations from L.S. Vygotsky's pedological work with Nikolai 
Veresov.

L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works, Volume 2: The Problem of Age

Downloadable pdfs at:
https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/bfm%3A978-981-16-1907-6%2F1.pdf<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/3ZinCnx1jniGKM3YGcL0fy0?domain=link.springer.com>

and

https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/bbm%3A978-981-16-1907-6%2F1.pdf<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/o8zNCoV1kpfXBxP0XSvh8Io?domain=link.springer.com>



--
David Kellogg
Sangmyung University
,
New article in Mind, Culture, and Activity:

Vygotsky’s pedology of the adolescent: the discovery of sex and the invention 
of 
love<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/ogvBCjZ1N7ij3pGvjiqP6a8?domain=url310.tandfonline.com>

50 free online copies  available at:

https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/CTJKPMUKGBANU5SNYG8T/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2022.2030362<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/vuTSCk81N9tnrmXpnTjLJIx?domain=tandfonline.com>
New article with Irina Leopoldoff-Martin and Bernard Schneuwly.: "Developing 
Concepts of Development in Vygotsky’s pédologie: Introduction to the Special 
Issue" in Mind, Culture and Activity.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2022.2026972<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/7geJClx1NjioAgPvouE4_D6?domain=tandfonline.com>

50 free online copies  available at:

https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/DNZTW3URNHIIMCYBKWX6/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2022.2026972<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/ZSxQCmO5glu5AEPr5IWyfNi?domain=tandfonline.com>

New book of translations from L.S. Vygotsky's pedological work with Nikolai 
Veresov.

L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works, Volume 2: The Problem of Age

Downloadable pdfs at:
https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/bfm%3A978-981-16-1907-6%2F1.pdf<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/3ZinCnx1jniGKM3YGcL0fy0?domain=link.springer.com>

and

https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/bbm%3A978-981-16-1907-6%2F1.pdf<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/o8zNCoV1kpfXBxP0XSvh8Io?domain=link.springer.com>

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