David is giving me a lot of reading homework, and it's the end of term here
in Korea. Fortunately, I have already read much of it, though not the
Cambridge Archaeological Journal that he cites.
I'm sure that David is equally (un)familiar with my own work, so there is
no need to point out that it does take the original 1970s Hallidayan
perspective, in which the critical development between the age of one and
two or so is the insertion of a lexicogrammatical plane. Similarly, the
development of generalization, abstraction, and grammatical metaphor are
all instances of a narrativizing internalization from extended dialogue
rather than powered by the need to enable more extended exchanges. As
Vygotsky puts it, every psychological function appears twice, first as a
dramatic category on the interpersonal stage and only then, restructured as
lexicogrammar, on the personal one. The later psychological crises (e.g. at
thirteen and, here in Korea, at nineteen) are likewise explained by
functions that appear twice, first on the historico-cultural stage and only
then on the interpersonal one.
Chris points out that his previous quotation is not simply an instance of
linguistic self-description but also an example of theory folded back on
itself. Here's another. Hjelmslev is discussing why he needs three sets of
terms to describe the same relationship between language parts, one for
language as process (e.g. solidarities, selections, combinations), one for
language as system (e.g. complementarities, specifications, autonomies) and
one that can be used for both (interdependencies, determinations,
constellations). :
"The theory itself is an example (of the third set of terms, i.e. of terms
that may be used for both system and process-DK): the hierarchy of the
definitions can be viewed as a process, since first one definition is
stated, written, or read, then another, and so on; or it may be viewed as a
system, that is, as potentially underlying a possible process."
Hjelmslev, L. (1961) Prolegomena to a Theory of Language, tr. F.J.
Whitfield. Madison: University of Wisconsin Press, p. 25.
dk
.
2022년 5월 27일 (금) 오전 6:00, David Rose <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>님이 작성:
Also David K
Re your desire for ‘yet another dimension--the ontogenetic’, all strata
also individuate! ... further from
Martin, J. R. (2009). Realisation, instantiation and individuation: some
thoughts on identity in youth justice conferencing. *DELTA: Documentação
de Estudos em Lingüística Teórica e Aplicada*, *25*, 549-583.
Where Halliday in the 1970s saw grammar emerging ontogenetically between
phonology and semantics, with the appearance of metafunctions, another
perspective has the content plane bifurcating into LG and DS to enable
extended exchanges.
Rose, D. (2006). A systemic functional approach to language evolution.
*Cambridge
Archaeological Journal*, *16*(1), 73-96.
*From: *sys-func-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <sys-func-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> on
behalf of David Rose <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Date: *Thursday, 26 May 2022 at 2:43 pm
*To: *sys-func@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <sys-func@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject: *[sys-func] Re: The Experiential and Logical Relational
Architecture of SFL Theory
Check out Clare Painter’s work on interpersonal lg development, from a
discourse semantic perspective
http://www.grammatics.com/appraisal/textspecial/painter-ontogenic.pdf
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/pVSxCQnMBZf63zly6sxutMY?domain=grammatics.com>
David
*From: *sys-func-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <sys-func-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> on
behalf of 데이브드켈로그_교수_영어교육과 <dkellogg60@xxxxxxxxx>
*Date: *Wednesday, 25 May 2022 at 12:20 pm
*To: *sys-func@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <sys-func@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject: *[sys-func] Re: The Experiential and Logical Relational
Architecture of SFL Theory
Actually, Peter, I think that t'other David has put his finger on the
precise reason I can't use "discourse semantics" or "genre" in my own work,
which is about the development of language from birth to adolescence in
Korean children.
Yes, every stratum instantiates: the meaning potential of the whole system
eventually instantiates as an individual Korean idiolect, the wording
potential of the Korean language instantiates as a specific Korean clause,
and the sounding potential instantiates as a particular tonal accent. All
that's true.
But to capture how the idiolect, the clause, and the accent develop
requires yet another dimension--the ontogenetic. I usually study what
Vygotsky calls "genetic sections"--that is, moments of comparable discourse
taken in the first year of life, in early childhood, in preschool and K
through 12. Discourse semantics lies in one place on the cline of
instantiation. The kind of verbal thinking I'm interested in tracing is
further along the line, I think, and I don't see that "genre" is helpful at
all since there's no such thing as an individual genre.
I also think that the number of strata, like the points on the cline of
instantiation, depend not only on the purpose of the model but also on the
moment of development. For the first year of life, two strata (sounding and
meaning) will do. For adolescents and adults, it's often useful to
distinguish more than three strata, e.g. between phonetics (what the kids
are actually doing as measured with PRAAT) and phonology (what they think
they are doing as measured by how people react). The late, great Bill
Greaves taught me how to do this; fortunately, the book he co-authored with
Halliday (2008) is still available.
dk
2022년 5월 25일 (수) 오전 8:35, David Rose <dmarc-noreply-outsider@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
님이 작성:
Never say never again! The past always meets the future eventually 😊
David
*From: *sys-func-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <sys-func-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> on
behalf of Peter White <prr.white@xxxxxxxxxxx>
*Date: *Tuesday, 24 May 2022 at 8:09 pm
*To: *sys-func@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <sys-func@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
sys-func@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <sys-func@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject: *[sys-func] Re: The Experiential and Logical Relational
Architecture of SFL Theory
Never the twain shall meet. Me thinks contrary categorical assertions at
ten paces.
Peter
----------------
Dr Peter R. R. White
School of Arts and Media
University of New South Wales,
Sydney, Australia
prr.white@xxxxxxxxxxx
www.languageofevaluation.info/appraisal
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/RobjCROND2urR70zrHN14JB?domain=languageofevaluation.info>
-----------------
------ Original Message ------
From: "David Rose" <dmarc-noreply-outsider@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "sys-func@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <sys-func@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: 24/05/2022 11:52:56 AM
Subject: [sys-func] Re: The Experiential and Logical Relational
Architecture of SFL Theory
All strata instantiate!
David
Martin, J. R. (2009). Realisation, instantiation and individuation: some
thoughts on identity in youth justice conferencing. *DELTA: Documentação
de Estudos em Lingüística Teórica e Aplicada*, *25*, 549-583.
Martin, J. R. (2010). Semantic variation: Modelling realisation,
instantiation and individuation in social semiosis. *New discourse on
language: Functional perspectives on multimodality, identity, and
affiliation*, *1*, 34.
*From: *sys-func-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <sys-func-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> on
behalf of 데이브드켈로그_교수_영어교육과 <dkellogg60@xxxxxxxxx>
*Date: *Monday, 23 May 2022 at 5:44 pm
*To: *sys-func@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <sys-func@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject: *[sys-func] Re: The Experiential and Logical Relational
Architecture of SFL Theory
The distinction between realization and instantiation (in Vygotsky, the
distinction between abstraction and generalization) is actually the result
of applying the categories of logico-semantic relationship that we apply to
non-technical language to our own technical terms, "realization" and
"instantiation". So THIS is what Firth meant when he said that linguistics
has no ontological status; it is simply language folded back on itself.
I remember how shocked I was when I first heard someone from the
Sydney School argue that genre was "realized" as context and context was
"realized" as discourse semantics. It only made sense to me when I heard
Martin describe his version of systemic-functional linguistics as
anti-psychological. But for that very reason I think that this confusion of
instantiation and realization is really the equivalent, in SFL, of
confusions of development (e.g. a child's semantic development) with
learning (e.g. classroom discourse) in discussions of Vygotsky's ZPD in
cultural-historical psychology.
Halliday always said that the concept of "mind" is not really necessary
for SFL, but he never said that about consciousness.
dk
2022년 5월 23일 (월) 오전 8:04, Dr ChRIS CLÉiRIGh <c.cleirigh@xxxxxxxxx>님이 작성:
Dear Colleagues,
The following tables from Halliday & Matthiessen (1999: 145-6) might be
useful for anyone interested in deepening their understanding of the
architecture of SFL Theory. The first shows that realisation, the relation
between strata, and between axes, is an elaborating (intensive) identifying
relation, and that instantiation, the relation between text and text
type/register, and between text type/register and language, is an
elaborating (intensive) attributive relation.
Delicacy and rank (composition), on the other hand, can be construed as
either identifying or attributive (ascriptive).
types of elaboration:
types of extension:
--
dr chris cléirigh
*Teaching how to think: education*
*Teaching what to think: indoctrination*
====================================
My Linguistics Sites
Deploying Functional Grammar
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/CCq1CVARKgCl5OkRlfyc0IJ?domain=deployingfunctionalgrammar.blogspot.com/>
Martin's Model Of Paralanguage
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/62lyCWLVXkUjPlXWjinT1Mw?domain=sflparalanguage.blogspot.com/>
Informing Thoughts
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/kJGoCXLW2mUnqpDznTmCep-?domain=informingthoughts.blogspot.com.au/>
Making Sense Of Meaning
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/sQxjCYW8Noc3NGp43uZGc9c?domain=meta-sfl-theory.blogspot.com/>
Systemic Functional Linguistics
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/eu1tCZY1NqiMDO8pMuXmhvo?domain=systemictheory.blogspot.com/>
Sys-Func
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/WlMIC1WLPxcpkvB9pSOs1YX?domain=sys-func.blogspot.com.au/>
Sysfling
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/pKL0C2xMQzikRnZ9kFL-iBK?domain=sysfling.blogspot.com.au/>
The Thought Occurs
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/5UwCC3QNPBimGL9Emsp-xGr?domain=thethoughtoccurs.blogspot.com.au/>
…
Thoughts That Cross My Mind
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/M0bnC4QOPEiJmL9vJF5MqLg?domain=thoughts-that-cross-my-mind.blogspot.com.au/>
Martin's Discourse Semantics, Register & Genre
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/jt9jC5QPXJi0xqpD0uVQqC7?domain=discourse-semantics.blogspot.com.au/>
Thoughts That Didn't Occur
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/JCspC6XQ4Lfo1Q0BouQlKqU?domain=master-bateman.blogspot.com.au/>
…
Working With Discourse: Meaning Beyond The Clause
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/FksQC71R2NTmQ3VJms1wVmR?domain=workingwithdiscourse.blogspot.com.au/>
The Cardiff Grammar
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/D6pQC81V0PTjznPKjilVayB?domain=cardiff-grammar.blogspot.com.au/>
Lexis As Most Local Context
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/Gc4-C91WPRTmMoNpmsVsz0M?domain=lexisasmostlocalcontext.blogspot.com/>
Factoring Out Structure
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/0eVqC0YKPvi2M6gL2I879cz?domain=yaegandoran.blogspot.com/>
Attitude In Systemic Functional Linguistics
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/FTUHCgZ0N1ilmVw7lf5Sto5?domain=attitude-in-sfl.blogspot.com.au/>
====================================
--
David Kellogg
Sangmyung University
,
New article in *Mind, Culture, and Activity:*
Vygotsky’s pedology of the adolescent: the discovery of sex and the
invention of love
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/ogvBCjZ1N7ij3pGvjiqP6a8?domain=url310.tandfonline.com>
50 free online copies available at:
https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/CTJKPMUKGBANU5SNYG8T/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2022.2030362
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/vuTSCk81N9tnrmXpnTjLJIx?domain=tandfonline.com>
New article with Irina Leopoldoff-Martin and Bernard Schneuwly.:
"Developing Concepts of Development in Vygotsky’s pédologie: Introduction
to the Special Issue" in *Mind, Culture and Activity.*
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2022.2026972
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/7geJClx1NjioAgPvouE4_D6?domain=tandfonline.com>
50 free online copies available at:
https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/DNZTW3URNHIIMCYBKWX6/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2022.2026972
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/ZSxQCmO5glu5AEPr5IWyfNi?domain=tandfonline.com>
New book of translations from L.S. Vygotsky's pedological work with
Nikolai Veresov.
L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works, Volume 2: The Problem of Age
Downloadable pdfs at:
https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/bfm%3A978-981-16-1907-6%2F1.pdf
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/3ZinCnx1jniGKM3YGcL0fy0?domain=link.springer.com>
and
https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/bbm%3A978-981-16-1907-6%2F1.pdf
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/o8zNCoV1kpfXBxP0XSvh8Io?domain=link.springer.com>
--
David Kellogg
Sangmyung University
,
New article in *Mind, Culture, and Activity:*
Vygotsky’s pedology of the adolescent: the discovery of sex and the
invention of love
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/ogvBCjZ1N7ij3pGvjiqP6a8?domain=url310.tandfonline.com>
50 free online copies available at:
https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/CTJKPMUKGBANU5SNYG8T/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2022.2030362
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/vuTSCk81N9tnrmXpnTjLJIx?domain=tandfonline.com>
New article with Irina Leopoldoff-Martin and Bernard Schneuwly.:
"Developing Concepts of Development in Vygotsky’s pédologie: Introduction
to the Special Issue" in *Mind, Culture and Activity.*
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2022.2026972
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/7geJClx1NjioAgPvouE4_D6?domain=tandfonline.com>
50 free online copies available at:
https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/DNZTW3URNHIIMCYBKWX6/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2022.2026972
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/ZSxQCmO5glu5AEPr5IWyfNi?domain=tandfonline.com>
New book of translations from L.S. Vygotsky's pedological work with
Nikolai Veresov.
L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works, Volume 2: The Problem of Age
Downloadable pdfs at:
https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/bfm%3A978-981-16-1907-6%2F1.pdf
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/3ZinCnx1jniGKM3YGcL0fy0?domain=link.springer.com>
and
https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/bbm%3A978-981-16-1907-6%2F1.pdf
<https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/o8zNCoV1kpfXBxP0XSvh8Io?domain=link.springer.com>