[SI-LIST] Re: TDR Analsis Equipment..Tektronix vs Agilent?
- From: "Asbenson, Lyndell L" <lyndell.l.asbenson@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: <heidi.barnes@xxxxxxxxxx>, <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:27:16 -0700
Dedicated TDR is much easer to setup then going the VNA route -Lyndell
-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Barnes, Heidi
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 12:17 PM
To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: timothy.j.nash@xxxxxxxx; tom_cip_11551@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: TDR Analsis Equipment..Tektronix vs Agilent?
Hi Tom,
Tim is correct in that probing is not a simple task. If you have the
time and patience, a Vector Network Analyzer with PCB Thru-Reflect-Line
Calibration standards can provide a method for getting measured
electrical data for a PCB structure that does not include the probes or
connectorized transitions on to the printed circuit board. The
S-Parameter data can then be converted to time domain for TDR analysis
of the discontinuities and a 40GHz box will give you around an 18pS rise
time pulse (an edge that is ~100mils long for a PCB dielectric constant
of ~4) which gives a significant amount of detail (50mils is rather
ambitious unless you have money for the top end 110GHz VNA's or 8pS rise
time TDR scopes). The other thing to think about is that most
applications running about 3Gbps are differential so it is also nice to
have a 4-Port system for measurements.
Regards,
Heidi
-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Nash, Timothy J
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 11:33 AM
To: tom_cip_11551@xxxxxxxxx; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: TDR Analsis Equipment..Tektronix vs Agilent?
Hi, Tom.
I have tried using a Tektronix TDR (I'm not sure of the model) to probe
PCBs before, and found that what probe you were using, and WHAT you were
probing, can make or break your measurement. We were using a hand-held
pressure-actuated type probe and simply bending your wrist a little
would change the response. We had a tough time even discerning between
two vias spaced an inch apart from each other. I believe the probes
used by most PCB manufacturers are on a robotic arm and they are probing
PCB coupons that have pre-defined TDR features. I found it very
difficult to glean much useful info from real PCB traces when the
discontinuities were as close together as what you are describing. I
don't believe this was a fault of the scope - just a function of the
probing method and the feature constraints of the PCB.
Tim
-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of tom_cip_11551
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 10:47 AM
To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] TDR Analsis Equipment..Tektronix vs Agilent?
Hi to the Signal Integrity community.
I am looking for a set of equipment with wich to do TDR analysis on=3D20
high speed PCB structures. We are now building boards to run at=3D20
speeds of 3 Gb/s or faster and I would like to resolve=3D20
discontinuites within, say, 50 mils to 80 mils of each other.
I have gotten quotes from Tektronix and Agilent for TDR equipment. =3D20
The Tektronix system consists of the DSA8200 digital sampling =
scope,=3D20
the 80E04 TDR sampling module and the 80SICON signal integrity and=3D20
failure analysis software (a $20K item by itself).
The Agilent system consists of the 86100C scope, the 54754A TDR=3D20
module and various other software programs for S parameters, Jitter=3D20
analysis, etc.
I am wondering what the Signal Integrity community at large is=3D20
using. Which system is more popular and, most important, cost=3D20
effective?
What are some of the advantages and drawbacks of each?
Are there other solutions on the market that are more cost effective?
Thank You
Tom
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