[SI-LIST] Re: De-embed fixture
- From: <sanjeev_gupta@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <al@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, <long.0.yang@xxxxxxxxx>, <jim.nadolny@xxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 12:33:05 -0600
Al, Thank you for your email my friend!
ADS provides multiport de-embedding. Default Symbols are provided till 12 ports
and for higher number ports user needs to create symbols locally.
Long, I am not sure which version of ADS you tried? ADS2009 or any later
release should not have any problem related to multiport de-embedding.. Please
send me the data privately and we can sort out any issues.
Sanjeev Gupta
Applications Engineer
Agilent Technologies, EEsof EDA
707-486-8784 (Cell)
-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Al Neves
Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2011 9:36 AM
To: 'Long Yang'; 'Jim Nadolny'
Cc: 'Ming Li'; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: De-embed fixture
Where do you get the ADS limitation? Agilent ADS has no issues with
numerous ports (why aren't the Agilent apps guy chiming in?), I thought it was
>224 or some significant number for T-matrix de-embedding for example.
I have done multi-port de-embedding with ADS no problem in the past.
We easily use Agilent ADS for our 16port BroadSide-Coplanar Coupler ( multiple
crosstalk aggressors, resonance) on our Channel Modeling Platform, CMP-08.
Scott McMorrow from Teraspeed conceived this structure to mimic backplanes, but
maintain flexibility and ability to make meaningful 3D EM analysis
-measurement. We co-authored a paper on Jitter Measurement - Simulation
Correspondence with LeCroy (it is on our website).
Products for the Signal Integrity Practitioner
Wild River Technology LLC
Alfred P. Neves
Founder - Engineer - Business Development
(503) 718 7172 Office
(503) 679 2429 Mobile
735 South East 16th Ave.
Hillsboro, OR 97123
www.wildrivertech.com
-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Long Yang
Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2011 2:26 AM
To: Jim Nadolny
Cc: Ming Li; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: De-embed fixture
When I worked on my de-embedding project several months ago, I was trying to
use ADS because ADS said it can do it.
When port number is below 4, such as s4p, s2p, ADS works fine.
But when the port number is 6, or 8 or greater, ADS may not work well.
I am not sure if ADS is wrong or I am wrong because I am new to ADS, but I am
so sure the same method was applied to use ADS for either 4 port S-parameter or
6 or 8 or even 12 port S-parameter.
I worked with local ADS application engineer, and they can re-produce the
"questionable" results.
So I had to write Matlab codes to run de-embedding.
Just for reference.
Best Regards
Long
On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 00:39, Jim Nadolny <jim.nadolny@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Ming Li,
>
> I worked with Agilent on this exact problem.
>
> Agilent developed a method within ADS to perform "S-parameter bi-section".
The method is pretty cool, you iterate in frequency to develop 2 mirror images
which when combined yield the fixture response. It worked perfectly on
simulated data but had a lot of glitches when using real world data.
Small things like phase wrap and noise lead to problems with the data. The big
killer is that you assume the fixture response is symmetric, but in in all
likelihood it's not perfectly symmetric.
>
> To Agilent's credit, we did get there with this method but at the end
> of
the day a TRL/M cal method was more robust and quicker for fixture removal.
>
> Good luck -
> jn
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Ming Li
> Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 12:02 PM
> To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [SI-LIST] De-embed fixture
>
> Hi, experts,
> I get two identical fixtures on both sides of my DUT. And I got the
> s4p
data of the fixture itself and s4p data of the DUT cascading with the two
fixtures. Could you please kindly let me know how I can de-embed the fixture
and get the s4p data for the DUT? I know the math behind it but the data itself
is too big to calculate.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Regards,
> Ming Li
>
>
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