[ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: interesting
- From: "" <hckryhillgsd@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "Peggy" <pmick12@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 13:08:33 -0600
Only with people who know what their talking about.
----- Original Message -----
From: Peggy
To: hckryhillgsd@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: Barbara or DTA Amidon; cudjoegsd@xxxxxxxxxxx; showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: 12/20/2006 11:42:48 AM
Subject: Re: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: interesting
I know you love to argue, Christine...and I don't have time this morning.
Peggy
hckryhillgsd@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
Quite a few of the working, hounds and some sporting breeds appear to be
down at the whither..long in the loin and straight in the front along with
straight pasterns. As I am writing this..I am looking in the AKC standard
book. this may be correct for the breed..but not correct for ours..but
again there are many more like the aforementioned..not many , if any like
the GSD. As for terriers..if they are not straight in front..then how can
you use the word "straight" to describe their fronts..ie "straight upper
arm" Let's use the Fox terrier for example. A straight line drawn from the
ground will show the shoulder to be nearly under the base of the dogs neck.
the whole front assembly is pushed forward in comparison to what a GSD
should have and the pasterns are stick straight also.There is no prosternum
to speak of. Backs are hard and short..but croups are flatter and tails set
high.There is no turn of stifle to speak of..thus the rear in my eyes is
straight in comparison to a GSD. Afghans and Cockers probably have closer
rear angulation to the GSD, but it is masked by coat.. However, the same
can be said for the GSD ..if you have a kennel full of soft backs, straight
shoulders, flat croups, and poor temperaments that you make excuses for,
etc..then often this is what you get used to seeing and in time many will
believe this is correct, exhibitors and judges alike.People in positions to
influence can use that power to make a positive impact and educate those
judges who don't know. Instead they often show mediocrity and the premise
of the sport becomes "let's see how many I can finish..just because of who
I am and who I can manipulate".How refreshing it would be if the premise of
the sport became "this breed has been good to me..if not for it, I would be
no one..let see if I can leave a legacy to better the breed.." I think I
will put the later on my "Grown up Christmas List.." Christine
[Original Message]
From: Peggy <pmick12@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <hckryhillgsd@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: Barbara or DTA Amidon <amidon@xxxxxxxxx>; <cudjoegsd@xxxxxxxxxxx>;
<showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: 12/20/2006 9:40:40 AM
Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: interesting
That is another problem not limited to judging Shepherds. People who
come from square breeds, like Old English, have to train their eye to
not unconsciously penalize long dogs, like Pembroke Welsh Corgis, and
vice versa.
As for a terrier person accepting straight fronts and/or rears, I
have to say that you should have said "comparative," because straight
fronts and rears are wrong in terriers, too. Of course you were
speaking "generally," but terriers don't have straight fronts...they
have shorter, straighter upper arms...and so do many German Shepherds,
which is why they lift so. Tom Castiota and I had a discussion about
that nearly 20 years ago...and about 5 years ago he brought it up to me
again, and he said "you know something, you were right about those
terrier fronts on German Shepherds. Look at that dog....." and we were
at a specialty at the time.
Soft backs are a fault in any breed...but I know what Christine
means about Mastiffs...they appear soft because that's a "wet" breed...
As for a successful Shepherd breeder finding good ones in other
breeds, that's no more true than for any other breed, sorry. The real
problem is that many of our judges never bred anything good...they just
handed dogs over to handlers who made champions for them. Sound
familiar? There are also people in many breeds, including Shepherds,
who had successful breeding programs for years, who did not depend on
handlers to tell them which dogs to keep and which ones to get rid
of...those people aren't stupid just because they bred
Dachshunds.........they are just like some of you out there...they don't
give a damn about other breeds.
Many of them do not attempt to judge Shepherds, either.
There are entirely too many generalities posted here that are done
so as if people were speaking with a direct line to the Almighty.
Everything that can be said about German Shepherd judging can be said in
any breed...and there are as many crooked judges in this breed as there
are in any breed.
This is the only breed I judge in which breeders, handlers, and breeder
judges have tried to "fix" shows. And I judge a good number of
breeds...not as many as Helen, but a good number...and I'll stick by
that statement.
Peggy
hckryhillgsd@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
I assume you are "supposed" to..but often you judge what you look at
everyday. If you are a terrier person doing shepherds..then straight
fronts
a rears look ok on a GSD...if you are a mastiff person..then a soft back
is
ok in a GSD...For me..it is hard to look at a breed with a soft
back..even
though I know it may be acceptable and even correct for that breeds
standard.If I feel that way..perhaps those who judge GSD's with a
background in another breed impose their own breeds standards on GSD's!
Since many other breeds lack our angulation front and rear and our
movement
is unique to our breed.WE are the ones who are different..and getting
all-breed judges to learn and recognize that difference a constant work
in
progress. I have always heard that if you can breed GSD's successfully,
you
can find good ones in others breeds too.I have found that to be a pretty
reliable statement.Christine
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POST is Copyrighted 2006. All material remains the property of the original
author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind
are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the
Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY
MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS
PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY
FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE
PROSECUTED.
For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx
VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org
============================================================================
============================================================================
POST is Copyrighted 2006. All material remains the property of the original
author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind
are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the
Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY
MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS
PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY
FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE
PROSECUTED.
For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx
VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org
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