As I recall Tedi and Evan's Ben had a very nice shoulder and Ben produced that:) At least with our Tic Toc had it when she placed in her novice class at the 1999 Del Mar National under Rita Sandel. Steven In a message dated 9/7/2010 10:53:04 A.M. Central Daylight Time, spotted101@xxxxxxxxxxx writes: Good shoulders don't exist in most purebred dogs. Look at ANY breed and good shoulders are a rare thing. Just way too many pieces - you have layback, you have angles, you have width between the elbows and and ribspring. And if you get a dog who has them - they are hard to reproduce. And many of the dogs who cannot use what appear to be good shoulders have the wrong ribcage behind them OR don't have the right type of muscling to have full extension - typically fat bunchy muscles, verses the smooth muscles required for a long reaching gait. JMHO Jessica MacMillan No Frills Dog Bathing Service & Design Paisley Dals (www.paisleydals.com) & The Shepherd Girls (Simmie, CGC, TDI, TC, HIC & Pepper, HIC) Member of: DCA, GSDCA & GTCDC > Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 11:41:36 -0400 > From: cudjoegsd@xxxxxxxxxxx > To: lindenhillgsd@xxxxxxxxxxx; showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Where have all the good shoulders gone > > As a addendum to Mike`s excellent shoulder question I add as an observation: What do you think is the reason that an anatomically correct shoulder does not always translate into correct shoulder motion? This is the type of e-mails this List wan intended to create. Thanks Mike. D.D. ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2010. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and its administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in any post. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================ ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2010. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and its administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in any post. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================