Oh I don't dispute that there are lines with both(health issues and good shoulders). As long as you all understand that we can also connect poor health to lines with poor shoulders as well. But health is a different conversation than I was trying to explore here. For me I still think there is a deficiency in the breed of what really makes a good shoulder. JMO M ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jessica MacMillan" <spotted101@xxxxxxxxxxx> To: lindenhillgsd@xxxxxxxxxxx, barmargsd@xxxxxxxxxx Cc: showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Tuesday, September 7, 2010 11:40:05 AM Subject: RE: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Where have all the good shoulders gone Mike, I think what Barb is trying to get across - Not because you have good shoulders, you have health problems. What she is saying is that the lines that TYPICALLY had good shoulders ALSO had some health issues. Not uncommon in any animal breeding, unfortunately. I think that is right. Jessica MacMillan No Frills Dog Bathing Service & Design Paisley Dals ( www.paisleydals.com ) & The Shepherd Girls (Simmie, CGC, TDI, TC, HIC & Pepper, HIC) Member of: DCA, GSDCA & GTCDC ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2010. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and its administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in any post. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================