Hopefully your person doing the IS (Illustrated Standard) can design a dog with an appropriate shoulder and your committee can agree on it. When the Dal IS was done, it was terrible and gave us shoulders that so many Pointers have (and are not correct for them either). First step is for people to learn what a good shoulder is, but if you have none for people to look at, it becomes that much harder. Also, as I pointed out, there are lots of other things that factor into shoulders so when a lesson on shoulders is given, it can just be the shoulder, it has to be the whole front assembly AND the ribbing - which everyone forgets. Jessica MacMillan No Frills Dog Bathing Service & Design Paisley Dals (www.paisleydals.com) & The Shepherd Girls (Simmie, CGC, TDI, TC, HIC & Pepper, HIC) Member of: DCA, GSDCA & GTCDC ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2010. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and its administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in any post. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================