The response I would expect from my dog would depend on the stranger -- most of the time the stranger is basically a drunk who escalates his threat but is never an actual danger to the individual or dog as he is limited to how far he can advance. (remember Paul at the National) A truly sound dog who is used to dealing with people in "interesting" urban situations will acknowledge the person, and generally be in some position between the handler and the stranger. The dog does not need to bark or act aggresive. But the dog should not leave, hide behind the handler or not recover from the perceived threat. My favorite bitch watched the stranger walk away afterwards and kept a casual eye on him most of hte day. Finally she had the chance to get close to him and checked him out. He passed her test and then she ignored him. The entire test is a test of recovering from escalating stresses. There is no shame in being startled but a sound dog will recover and deal with it. My dogs are a lot sounder than I am. While we are at it -- 33 is not a "perfect score" nor is a "0" (with no negative numbers) a bad score. That 33 dog may be far too much for some people while the 0 dog is just fine for them. I like the 33, but I also train my dogs. In the case of the SchH3 dog who failed the test under Bob, he did notknow how to deal with a threat unless there was a sleeve - that sleeve became his way of releasing stress. When the stranger did not have a sleeve and did not act like a helper, he could not handle it. Much to the surprise of the owner who had been worried about being able to hold the dog back should the dog want to attack. Ruth ________________________________ From: Denise Williams <denwil2007@xxxxxxxxx> To: showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 4:57:29 PM Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Temperament Test (and Committee)- LONG How much concern should they show towards the weird stranger? Chase would grow but I can call him off. Denise W. http://www.showgermanshepherds.info for show and performance (join my site ring-follow the link) ________________________________ From: Terry Cochran <fairway97045@xxxxxxxxx> To: showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; denwil2007@xxxxxxxxx Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 7:13:03 PM Subject: Re: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Temperament Test (and Committee)- LONG I didn't know they had CGC classes. Live and learn. I do know the most frequent failed part of the TT is the friendly stranger. You just can teach a dog to ignore a human acting overly friendly. No 2 people do it the same. You can teach a dog the rest of the test. The one dog I have that failed the test was an all German girl that thought the weird stranger was a set up for correction. She had been know to take her job a little to seriously at home and I had gotten on her a couple of times. She is anything but weak in temperament. I also had one pass that I would never pass. Nothing is prefect but at least it is something. Terry --- On Tue, 1/27/09, Denise Williams <denwil2007@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: From: Denise Williams <denwil2007@xxxxxxxxx> Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Temperament Test (and Committee)- LONG To: showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 3:24 PM Just had that same conversation on another board. I don't think we will ever agree on what test/job/sport is a suitable test of temperment. The only real test is a life experience, where a dog performs in an emergency situation. May we never have to go through that to prove our dogs. I'm not sure if the CGC test is equal to the GSDCA TT. This is an interesting view. Anyone can take CGC classes, so you still teach the test. I practiced basic obedience with Chase before our CGC. Chopper was a cakewalk. As a show dog, we have plenty of practice ignoring other dogs, being left with strangers, saying in one place. Denise W. http://www.showgermanshepherds.info for show and performance (join my site ring-follow the link) ________________________________ From: Ruth Scheubler <rightdogphoto@xxxxxxxxx> To: marcatoshepherds@xxxxxxxxx; Showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 5:21:13 PM Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Temperament Test (and Committee)- LONG Tell that to Quazar, sired by a litter mate to a BIS Ch, who had more captures in 8 months than the rest of the department's dogs combined in the full year. Tell that to Lars, an avalanche dog sired by GV Max. Tell that to a youngster sired by Rogue who is now SAR certified. and the list goes on and on. The breed has a range of temperament that is suited to the range of uses for the breed. The very hard, high drive BSP winner may not do well tending sheep, nor as a service dog for an autistic child. Some people think that SchH titles are the only way to evaluate the "working" potential and character of a dog. They have not seen a SchH3 dog turn tail and hunt for someone with a sleeve when attacked by a dog-wise ewe with lambs. Nor have they seen a SchH3 dog fail the GSDCA temperament test as it was different from what was expected. Not all show dogs are "nervy" and not all SchH titled dogs are sound. "CORRECT" is somewhere within the acceptable range and the test score should be of use to determine what that dog is suited for if within the acceptable range. Ruth ===========================================================================POST is Copyrighted 2008. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ =========================================================================== ===========================================================================POST is Copyrighted 2008. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ =========================================================================== ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2008. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================