Paulette, dearest, I hate to be the one to break it to you...but the problems you have addressed are not unique to this breed. The List is not the reason the conformation fancy is failing....the conformation fancy is failing everywhere. The entire dog fancy, conformation, anyway, is in trouble. For some years now, performance venues have outdrawn us in entries...and we, the "elite" of the fancy, the conformation diehards, have ignored that fact. Sure, some people have gone out and worked their dogs in conformation dogs in schutzhund, or herding, obedience, tracking, agility, and now in rally...but even those who've done it, if they came from strong conformation backgrounds, still want to compete in conformation above all. In all breeds, not just GSDs, the newbies feel unappreciated, and the long-timers feel the same way. Attempts at helping newbies are all too often met with "I already know that" and the like...it's difficult to keep trying to help people who already know everything. Many people have a desire to teach and share knowledge...and more than you can count, those people are outnumbered by the ones who will tell you "don't ask him, he knows nothing." But those naysayers aren't going to teach you, either. The Internet hasn't helped. It's made communication easier, but there's no way to know whether the person writing really has a clue or is just a smooth talker (writer). On the net, people are told not to show to certain judges for one reason or other, and they listen more often than not...regardless of the veracity of the warning, and often without knowing much about the person warning them off. There are breeds, and GSDs are one of those, where owner-handlers don't fare very well...those who would like to try are discouraged from even making a first attempt. You know very well that newbies are told "you have to have a handler"....and not just any handler...one of the "top" handlers. The exceptions are notable enough that they are remembered. In Shepherds, people also have to know how to double...some handlers want owners racing around the outside of the ring waving, ringing bells, screaming, or whatever...in other breeds this isn't necessarily the case, but in this breed, it is a fact...if you can't double, your handler is going to beat you up one side and down the other more often than not. When the dog show "sport" was started, it was something the wealthy did to compete..."my dog's better than yours, and let's have an expert opinion to prove it." How did it deteriorate? I'll tell you... First, the dog fancy (speaking only of conformation here) became a blue collar activity. The AKC tried to promote dog shows as a family activity. Well, people soon learned that it wasn't really a family activity at all...yes, you could take your kids, and they could show in Juniors, and maybe even learn to handle your dogs in the "real" classes, but now, the judges weren't really experts anymore. Many of them "judged" by putting up familiar faces at the wrong end of the lead, or because they went to all the shows they could, felt it was safe to put up dogs they'd seen other, perhaps more important, judges reward. Hmmm. What is wrong with this picture? As if that kind of judging wasn't bad enough, you had judges showing dogs one weekend and judging that judge's dogs the next. Are we to believe there was never going to be any "funny stuff?" Not on your tintype! If I put your dog up this week, will you put mine up next month? Ahem.....excuse me...if I don't put up this dog, then will my entries fall off, or will I not get hired to judge that specialty in Cowtown? Hmmm. There are exhibitors with deep pockets...they can bring any number of dogs of various style to enough judges to make an impression..."put my dogs up or your entries will be low next time." These are the perceptions people have of the GSD fancy...but I tell you the truth...this goes on in all breeds...perhaps more so where the best entries are usually given to specialists...that is to say, breeder-judges. At the same time, wins under non-breeder judges, or at all breed venues, are looked upon as less worthy. The biggest problem in the dog world today is that showing in conformation has gone back to being an activity for the wealthy...the "shoestring" operation is quickly becoming a thing of the past. Handlers, especially those with clients with big bucks, control much of what goes on...and the AKC is no help. On Judges-L, people have been complaining that they don't even have the funds to get qualified to judge...and AKC doesn't care. People who don't mind the entry fees or the driving (gas costs, etc) would rather put their money down for a more fair game...that of performance. They think they have a chance there, as opposed to the conformation ring. Nothing has transpired on this List that hasn't happened on every breed specialty list...people are losing interest because the playing field is bumpy and filled with potholes...and because they don't have the money to throw away when they start out by thinking the whole activity is "crooked." It isn't that no one wants to teach...it's that the majority of attempts, except in one-on-one situations, get met with insults and "I already know that." Or, "it isn't important." The attitude seems to be, very often, that the entire history of a breed begins the day a newbie gets his or her first show dog...and God help us all if that first dog is successful...there's no going back after that...no wanting to learn...what's left to learn, after all? You bought a dog, you hired a handler, and you have a Champion...you're as able as anyone. There are exceptions...but if you want a general overlook, there it is. Some of us keep grinding away, but it is a losing battle........and not just in this breed, not just on this List....throughout the dog world. Just the same way people look at anti-dog, anti-breeder legislation. "I already know that." And continue on doing the same old, same old. Talk about apathy?! I read that over and I think to myself "gee, you sound so bitter." I'm not. Not at all. If I have any friends on this earth, they are people I met through my involvement with dogs. I think that every good thing (and bad thing) that ever happened to me happened because I was involved in dogs. There is nothing that thrills me more than watching wonderful dogs...(they are few and far between, sadly)...but don't blame the List...........this is not "our father's dog world," and things are never going to be the way they were. If a person wants to learn, that person will find a way. I'm reminded again of Judges-L.........people come on there and say "I'm looking for a mentor in ........... such and such a breed." I can't help but think that if these people had spent some time around that breed, they'd have found a mentor already, without having to ask for one to find them. We used to not have to advertise that we wanted someone to teach us...we just went out and found our teachers. I'm sure that anyone who wants to learn will find someone, and then learn the way the long-timers learned. So long as everyone remembers that 20 years experience is better than one year's experience 20 times...if you want to learn, you will. Peggy ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. 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