[ SHOWGSD-L ] Guys Stop With the Bashing
- From: "Carolyn Martello" <marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <firethorntemple@xxxxxxxxx>, "'Zoa Rockenstein'" <zrockenstein@xxxxxxxxx>, <jim_barnhart@xxxxxxxxxxx>, "'gsd showlist'" <showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 19:27:20 -0700
I love the way Gail Sprock worded it. We see it as "the cream will rise to
the top".......<G>
This started as a question about Clubs doubling up their shows for one weekend
and I still
believe it will benefit the Clubs and the Exibitors for time and money.....and
the handlers as
it frees up more weekends for them.....possibly more shows elsewhere if they
choose.
Though this conversation took a 'bend' to the quality of judging it also is a
good point. Instead
of driving TWO times to show under one judge each time on two different
weekends......you
actually might have three more to choose from. If not...don't enter under
those....or don't go.
BUT...........It STILL would have been the same slate of judges for those
shows!!!
NOTHING CHANGES THAT!! It's a moot point!
The 4 show weekend does not change the judging slate the Clubs vote for!!
We all have a list of judges we will not show to again for a variety of
reasons. We all know
judges we will drive a distance to exhibit under with the dog we are
showing....and there are
some we have never seen judge.
Hopefully a Club puts a good slate of judges together no how matter how many
shows are offered!!
If the membership is voting without due consideration for their Club's success
but their own bias no
one has control over that. The four shows in one weekend don't CAUSE
that..... anymore than
they cause one dog to win every day........or a different dog to win every day.
Those are judge
decisions no matter how many shows Clubs puts on that weekend. Again....a
moot point.
Carolyn marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
www.Marhaven.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Elkins To: 'Zoa Rockenstein' ; jim_barnhart@xxxxxxxxxxx ; 'gsd
showlist'
Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 4:14 PM Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Guys
Stop With the Bashing
Dr. Z. --- A great handler named Gail Sprock once said that dog shows are
one place in our culture where the Average Joe can compete with and beat the
Richie Riches on a regular basis. The trick is that Joe has to have a dog
that is so good that he/she can't be denied. tom elkins Firethorn Temple
<http://www.firethorntemple.com/>
Well said, Tom. I agree with you. At the same time, Jim, I would never
deny that money and politics bring advantages to some. The thing is,
complaining about it doesn't help anyone become any more competitive! If
the dog you bought isn't winning, get a better dog. If the dog you bred
isn't winning, either get a better brood bitch or breed her differently and
try again. There is really no point in stewing about people who have more
money or greater political advantages. Even they don't win all the time!
Zoa Dr. Zoa Rockenstein www.riverrockshepherds.com <
From: Tom Elkins <firethorntemple@xxxxxxxxx>To: jim_barnhart@xxxxxxxxxxx;
Jim -- I think that your "too much of this sport is a corrupted culture"
statement is incorrect. As for the "poll", I'm for whatever will help
specialty clubs survive and hopefully thrive. If that means four shows in
one weekend, great.
As far as the "corrupted culture" business, I'd say that notion is
fundamentally wrong. If you have a star and someone who knows how to handle
presenting it, you'll win at specialties. You may not win every time, but
you'll win. A big part of the problem is that too many people look at their
dogs with their hearts and not their heads. They think their dogs are better
than they really are, so when they lose they assume there must be some
conspiracy against them, e.g. crooked judges. Have I seen shows where I KNOW
there was hanky panky in the outcome? Yes, but not that often. By the way,
that stuff happens at all-breeds too, but it just takes on different forms.
As long as there are human beings involved, those things are going to
happen, hopefully not often.
It is very difficult to win at specialties because the competition is
extremely tough. Remember, you have to beat everyone there in your sex, and
that usually means at least a few very good to excellent animals on each
side. My experience is that blaming crooked judging at specialties for
losing and/or small entries is the last refuge of people who just don't get
it, and who in reality don't have a dog that is good enough to win.
tom elkins Firethorn Templehttp://www.firethorntemple.com <
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of James Barnhart
Randy, I appreciate the effort in polling folks about having two shows a day
and two clubs or
more coordinating their show dates to make even four shows in two days
possible. Your
probably looking for yes it's a good idea and I like it or no I don't like
it. I'm ok with it and
willing to try it under certain conditions. I'd like any discussion on how
to save specialty clubs
from bankruptcy.
You said exactly what I've been trying to say: "Judges that really care
about this breed
and don't care who is on the end of the lead are the best there is."
If the object of a four show, two day day weekend is to build a large entry
for more than one
club then the clubs which are organizing such a big endeavor must coordinate
their efforts
and bring in the best judges there are. Many clubs realize this and their
members are
very focused and knowledgeable in their judge selection. A club which such
members is
mature enough to coordinate such an effort with another club equally as
involved with
good judge selection. Other clubs not so disciplined. It is America and if
a bunch of
people in a club want a judge that will pick their dogs then that is their
right.
I won't go to that club's show even if they have six shows in three days.
You say the
MOST IMPORTANT people in this sport (the exhibitors) ARE ALL FOR IT. I
don't think
all exhibitors are necessarily for it just on it's merits of thriftiness and
consolidation
which the idea may well afford. The way to build support for such a big
investment in
time and effort is to have an open discussion of what this really means, the
benefits and the
repercussions, A yes or no poll is a start. One club can have two shows
on one day to
try it on a smaller scale. A few clubs have dared to try it and are
reporting good results.
I don't want to go to a show no matter how much I save if judges who are
knowledgeable and
have experience and integrity are not on the slate. Saving money is
important to exhibitors
and to the sponsoring clubs. All exhibitors want the best dog to win but
they want an equal
opportunity to show they might have that dog. I don't care how many tell me
how all our
judges are great and I overstate the problem. It is the judge selection
process and innovative
ideas to hold shows that will help build steady consistent entries for our
shows. I don't
have to have a judge's license to know too much of this sport is a corrupted
culture.
If folks want to call that judge bashing then so be it.
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