Jim -- I think that your "too much of this sport is a corrupted culture" statement is incorrect. As for the "poll", I'm for whatever will help specialty clubs survive and hopefully thrive. If that means four shows in one weekend, great. As far as the "corrupted culture" business, I'd say that notion is fundamentally wrong. If you have a star and someone who knows how to handle presenting it, you'll win at specialties. You may not win every time, but you'll win. A big part of the problem is that too many people look at their dogs with their hearts and not their heads. They think their dogs are better than they really are, so when they lose they assume there must be some conspiracy against them, e.g. crooked judges. Have I seen shows where I KNOW there was hanky panky in the outcome? Yes, but not that often. By the way, that stuff happens at all-breeds too, but it just takes on different forms. As long as there are human beings involved, those things are going to happen, hopefully not often. It is very difficult to win at specialties because the competition is extremely tough. Remember, you have to beat everyone there in your sex, and that usually means at least a few very good to excellent animals on each side. My experience is that blaming crooked judging at specialties for losing and/or small entries is the last refuge of people who just don't get it, and who in reality don't have a dog that is good enough to win. tom elkins Firethorn Temple http://www.firethorntemple.com -----Original Message----- From: showgsd-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:showgsd-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of James Barnhart Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 12:56 AM To: gsd showlist Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Guys Stop With the Bashing Randy, I appreciate the effort in polling folks about having two shows a day and two clubs or more coordinating their show dates to make even four shows in two days possible. Your probably looking for yes it's a good idea and I like it or no I don't like it. I'm ok with it and willing to try it under certain conditions. I'd like any discussion on how to save specialty clubs from bankruptcy. You said exactly what I've been trying to say: "Judges that really care about this breed and don't care who is on the end of the lead are the best there is." If the object of a four show, two day day weekend is to build a large entry for more than one club then the clubs which are organizing such a big endeavor must coordinate their efforts and bring in the best judges there are. Many clubs realize this and their members are very focused and knowledgeable in their judge selection. A club which such members is mature enough to coordinate such an effort with another club equally as involved with good judge selection. Other clubs not so disciplined. It is America and if a bunch of people in a club want a judge that will pick their dogs then that is their right. I won't go to that club's show even if they have six shows in three days. You say the MOST IMPORTANT people in this sport (the exhibitors) ARE ALL FOR IT. I don't think all exhibitors are necessarily for it just on it's merits of thriftiness and consolidation which the idea may well afford. The way to build support for such a big investment in time and effort is to have an open discussion of what this really means, the benefits and the repercussions, A yes or no poll is a start. One club can have two shows on one day to try it on a smaller scale. A few clubs have dared to try it and are reporting good results. I don't want to go to a show no matter how much I save if judges who are knowledgeable and have experience and integrity are not on the slate. Saving money is important to exhibitors and to the sponsoring clubs. All exhibitors want the best dog to win but they want an equal opportunity to show they might have that dog. I don't care how many tell me how all our judges are great and I overstate the problem. It is the judge selection process and innovative ideas to hold shows that will help build steady consistent entries for our shows. I don't have to have a judge's license to know too much of this sport is a corrupted culture. If folks want to call that judge bashing then so be it. ****** Stop Aerial Wolf Killing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGPFPBmzRrQ ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. 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