[rollei_list] Re: OT: development
- From: Jerry Lehrer <jerryleh@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 16:11:01 -0700
Richard,
I seem to recall that sodium chloride was one of the
components of a hypo eliminator.
BTW, I would be loath to use a non hardening fixer
ever for film. Of course I used a non hardening fixer
for PAPER that was going to be toned.
Jerry
Richard Knoppow wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Allen Zak" <azak@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 3:06 PM
> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: OT: development
>
> >
> > On May 20, 2005, at 4:21 PM, Richard Knoppow wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Bob Shell" <bob@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> To: <rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 12:17 PM
> >> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: OT: development
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> On Friday, May 20, 2005, at 02:57 PM, James Davis
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Sorry to follow myself up, I presume that the Ilford
> >>>> equivalent (for my
> >>>> local store stocks Ilford) is Ilford Wash Aid? It's not
> >>>> clear from
> >>>> their
> >>>> literature that it's sulfite based.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> I never use a wash aid with film. Fixing the film
> >>> longer
> >>> and washing
> >>> properly will get rid of any residual dye. The wash aid
> >>> won't hurt
> >>> anything, but I don't think it is really necessary. I
> >>> do
> >>> use it on
> >>> fiber based paper prints, though.
> >>>
> >>> Bob
> >>>
> >>> ---
> >> It has the same benefit for film as for paper in that
> >> it
> >> makes some othewise insoluble fixing reaction products
> >> soluble, or at least releases them when they are bound up
> >> to
> >> image silver or the gelatin. This has the effect of
> >> extending fixer capacity and insuring complete fixation.
> >> Wash aid also helps to conserve water where that is
> >> desirable by reducing film washing time from 30 minutes
> >> to 5
> >> minutes.
> >>
> >> ---
> >> Richard Knoppow
> >> Los Angeles, CA, USA
> >> dickburk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> > Ilford recommends fixing with non-hardening rapid fixer,
> > no wash aid,
> > then washing with a technique that usually takes about 5
> > minutes or
> > less and uses about three pints (@ 1.5 liters) of water
> > per roll of
> > film, assuming SS Nikor style tanks and reels. That's
> > what I have been
> > doing for the last decade or so. It is probably too early
> > to determine
> > how well my negatives will last, but I'm also old enough
> > to not really
> > care. Fortunately, my earlier B&W was processed strictly
> > to Kodak
> > specs, which included a wash aid ( Perma Wash) and
> > therefore will
> > outlast all meaning.
> >
> > Allen Zak
> >
> > ---
> > Rollei List
>
> I am not certain what is in Perma-Wash. At least one wash
> aid on the market seems to be composed of a detergent. I
> have no idea if this stuff works. I have the vaguest memory
> of reading an article or paper on detergents as wash aids
> long ago but have not seen anyting recently. Lets say I am
> suspicious of it.
> The test for completeness of washing is the Silver
> Nitrate test. There are others which are most sensitive but
> the Silver Nitrate test will show whether the prints have
> excessive hypo in them. The method is very simple but a more
> elaborate version, in which the stain spots are fixed, can
> be used with a densitometer for quantitative measurements.
> All this stuff is in Kodak literature somewhere.
> Ilford's procedure is premised on the idea that fixing
> time should be so short that hypo can not work its way into
> the paper fibers. Washing is a diffusion process except for
> this condition of paper base. Once the hypo becomes adsorbed
> onto the interstices of the fibers they tend to bind there
> and it is at least partially a frictional process to remove
> them. Sulfite acts as an ion exchange for thiosulfate so
> tends to force it out of the fibers. Ilford found that if
> the fixing process could be completed in less than a minute,
> preferably in no more than 30 seconds, the hypo did not
> become bound up in the fibers. After 2 minutes the deed is
> done and washing must be done conventionally. One problem is
> that no all paper will fix out in one minute or less.
> Ilford recommends a ten minute treatment in sulfite wash
> aid followed by a five minute wash. Ilford also has a water
> saving method of using successive baths of water. Kodak has
> a similar regimen but Ilford's probably uses less water.
> Such a system of successive baths can give perfectly
> archival washing but has no advantage over running water
> other than conservation of water and utility where running
> water is not available.
>
> ---
> Richard Knoppow
> Los Angeles, CA, USA
> dickburk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> ---
> Rollei List
>
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