Re: Screen Reader Compatibility
- From: coscell <coscell@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 10:24:08 +0800 (CST)
Nice to hear this. Is it possible to edit multi-cells braille patterns
such as 0x9ad8 = 13-146-3?
On Sun, 24 Jan 2010, Jared Wright wrote:
> This is not something I am effected by and thus have not explored in depth,
> but this appears to indicate that you can in fact customize the Braille tables
> however you would like.
> https://www.gwmicro.com/window-eyes/manual/html/index.html?section18_4.htmOn
> 1/24/2010 10:44 AM, coscell wrote:
> > WE couldn't be modified the braille table so it doesn't support Asia
> > language like Chinese.
> >
> > On Sun, 24 Jan 2010, Jared Wright wrote:
> >
> >
> > > 1. Window Eyes has a self-contained Eloquence driver now that is equal to
> > > JFW's in every way.
> > > 2. Who cares who had scripting back in 1998? It's now 2010, friend, and
> > > WE
> > > took the time to do there's right, and thus you have a scripting
> > > environment
> > > that uses programming languages we already use rather than than
> > > proprietary
> > > garbage, adheres to better common programming practices, and supports COM
> > > automation (which is truly a beautiful thing.)
> > > 3. The JAWS SMA authorizes only two upgrades, while WE's authorizes three.
> > > 4. JAWS requires an additional $200 for remote desktop access. Window Eyes
> > > does not, making the pricing difference even more clear.
> > > 5. If you insist on cracking, Window Eyes is an easier crack than JFW.
> > >
> > > Normally I wouldn't care, but so many projects, like Sodbeans, seem to
> > > juse
> > > jump on the JAWS bandwagon by default. This perception needs to change,
> > > because I think you can make a pretty convincing case that JFW is pretty
> > > definitively inferior to Window Eyes. The only things JAWS users can give
> > > me
> > > for why they don't switch is that they are stubborn and do not want to
> > > learn
> > > the WE interface. I mean, , JAWS 11 is loaded with ugly regressions.
> > > Couple
> > > this with some of Freedom's political and legal jockeying over the last
> > > few
> > > years, and I think it's clear that they do not want to see AT improve at
> > > as
> > > rapid a pace as possible. They just want to make a dollar off blind people
> > > who
> > > are struggling for that dollar as it is. That isn't to say the folks at GW
> > > Micro aren't trying to make a living, but FS in my opinion has reached the
> > > point of being downright sleezy. Maybe that doesn't matter to you, but it
> > > does
> > > to me.
> > >
> > > Jared
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 1/24/2010 4:41 AM, black ares wrote:
> > >
> > > > man, in time I've started using jaws, in our part of world, windows eyes
> > > > mean nothing.
> > > > More years after, (10 or so) window eyes was poor in features, worked in
> > > > less situations than jaws.
> > > > Look at the scripting feature you claim here.
> > > > In what year did windows eyes introduced scripting? How I remember, some
> > > > two
> > > > or three years ago, man, jaws had scripting still from 1998 (as farr as
> > > > I
> > > > know), because in 1998 I started using a pc and also jaws for windows
> > > > and
> > > > surprisingly hal5 for dos.
> > > >
> > > > Also, I will speak here about a practice that make you all to be ofenced
> > > > acting in law supporters, but on the other side, is a practice which
> > > > gives
> > > > help to marketing.
> > > > And if you don't guess what is about I will tell you, is about cracks.
> > > > In early life, when I had no money to buy such expensive licenses (in my
> > > > country medium sallary is around 500 euro even now), I found jaws cracks
> > > > and
> > > > used jaws with crack from 1998 til 2006 during my high school studies
> > > > and
> > > > after during my university studies.
> > > > After, when I've got employed and begun making money with help of screen
> > > > readers as a software developer, what screen reader license do you think
> > > > I
> > > > have bought?
> > > > Sure the one I was used to.
> > > > I had a fairly great experience with jaws and even not thought to spent
> > > > 900
> > > > dolars to a new software, at that time with less features than jaws, and
> > > > to
> > > > spent time to learn it.
> > > >
> > > > More than that, I am looking now at your pricing plan there
> > > > and it is true window eyes is 895 dolars and jaws is 1095 dolars so 200
> > > > dolars difference, but jaws sma is 200 dolars and windows eyes is 300
> > > > dolars.
> > > > so in time, you get all money back and is no difference between the two
> > > > companies.
> > > > The only thing that difers is the marketing plan and for sure the
> > > > product
> > > > and unfortunately for you, freedom scientific are better both.
> > > >
> > > > Other things which keeped me away from window eyes:
> > > > 1. the synth, I realy love elocuence and that delktalk and how the hell
> > > > is
> > > > called and spelled, is very lazy and sounds poorly compared to
> > > > elocuence.
> > > > Window eyes introducet elocuence after 2002 and not as a default synth
> > > > and
> > > > when, in 2006 I wanted to give a try to window eyes, I ended up not
> > > > understanding the dectalk even for succeeding to change it in
> > > > elocuence... I
> > > > gave up.
> > > > 2. also the keyboard differences from jaws which put me in a new
> > > > environment
> > > > where I don't know how to get the informations I wanted to, scared me.
> > > > 3. lacs of come crack, for permeting me to evaluate best the software,
> > > > until
> > > > 2007 I didn't see any cracks for window eyes and how I remember (may be
> > > > I am
> > > > wrong) in demo mode window eyes, in its early stages acted only for 10
> > > > minutes.
> > > >
> > > > So, what you see now man, is the results of a wrong marketing campain
> > > > that
> > > > gwmicro have done during years.
> > > > For a product, the product it self and a low price is not enough to sell
> > > > the
> > > > product.
> > > > In this moment, even you will offer the window eyes for free, you will
> > > > not
> > > > get so rapidly customers, because there are true alternatives there like
> > > > nvda.
> > > > best regards my friend and think better, the software market does not
> > > > mean
> > > > only good technics developed in a software.
> > > > --
> > > > Radu Vasile
> > > > --------------------------------------
> > > > Project manager and software architect
> > > > Cell: +40722614784
> > > > e-mail:
> > > > rvasile@xxxxxxxxx
> > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jared
> > > > Wright"<wright.jaredm@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > > To:<programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 10:16 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: Screen Reader Compatibility
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I'm definitely disappointed to see JAWS getting all the attention on
> > > > > the
> > > > > Windows side. Personal, subjective preference aside, I think most of
> > > > > us
> > > > > can agree that It's more expensive than Window Eyes, has an inferior
> > > > > scripting implementation compared to Window Eyes, uses more system
> > > > > resources than Window Eyes, and yet so many accessibility products
> > > > > worry
> > > > > about compatibility with JFW which translates to implicit support for
> > > > > Freedom Scientific's frivolous litigation, forced Braille driver
> > > > > signing,
> > > > > and other nonsense that serves the blind community in no useful
> > > > > fashion.
> > > > > It sounds like you've already gotten pretty far on your roadmap for
> > > > > Windows with JAWS already, so I'll say no more. Hopefully you'll
> > > > > revisit
> > > > > the possibility of Window Eyes compatibility in the future, although I
> > > > > guess with Window Eyes being more adaptable (my opinion of course)
> > > > > it'll
> > > > > be easier for its users to adapt it to Sotbeans themselves.
> > > > >
> > > > > Jared
> > > > >
> > > > > On 1/23/2010 9:59 AM, Andreas Stefik wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi folks,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We're working hard out here on screen reader compatibility on the
> > > > > > Sappy/Sodbeans projects in NetBeans. We're trying to decide which
> > > > > > screen
> > > > > > readers we should make our code compatible with. We realistically
> > > > > > can't
> > > > > > do all of them in the short term and we are starting with Jaws/ OSX
> > > > > > Voice Over. Once those are complete, any suggestions on what screen
> > > > > > readers the community would prefer come next? Any preferences?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We were thinking maybe a unix flavor screen reader, perhaps Orca,
> > > > > > but
> > > > > > are open to suggestions. What does the community think?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Andreas Stefik, Ph.D.
> > > > > > Assistant Professor
> > > > > > Department of Computer Science
> > > > > > Southern Illinois University Edwardsville
> > > > > >
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