True. This move could scare plenty of people away from using, or continuing to use, Java for commercial applications, and there goes its usefulness to future developers and companies... On 8/18/10, DaShiell, Jude T. CIV NAVAIR 1490, 1, 26 <jude.dashiell@xxxxxxxx> wrote: > To the best of my knowledge, Android is G.P.L. and wasn't even > originally developed by or at google. Where the development started was > at Carnegie Mellon University and that operating system was made > available to google by the University. Very likely the University > didn't charge for the operating system so that along with the G.P.L. > licensing could substantially weaken Oracle's case. Another > consideration here is that if Oracle starts demanding licensing fees > from every java application on the planet, that'll shut the development > off hard fast and permanently of new technologies done with java. The > solaris operating system which Oracle bought is a true security turkey > having more problems than Linux even to this day. I know that because > of other contacts I have at work and they've had occasion to use it and > clean up too many of its messes. That won't be a cash cow for that > reason, at least not for a while and several major releases. Just > because a predatory firm has jingle in its pocket doesn't necessarily > entitle it to do strip mining on acquired resources but in Oracle's > specific case, the acquisition crew didn't do sufficient due diligence > and had more jingle in their pockets than operational brains in their > heads. So far as I'm concerned, couldn't happen to more nicer and > deserving people. > > -----Original Message----- > From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Don Marang > Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 13:19 > To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: Re: Why isn't Open Office on Windows Accessible? > > Now that is a rational angle I had not considered. Unfortunately, > Oracle > seems to think they bought a cash cow. It is possible they might > require > paid licences for Java used anywhere. I have not checked the license > terms > that Sun has placed on this software. I assumed that it was a GPL Open > Source type. Does anyone know? It seems kind of strange to change > license > terms after years and years. > > Don Marang > > There is just so much stuff in the world that, to me, is devoid of any > real > substance, value, and content that I just try to make sure that I am > working > on things that matter. > Dean Kamen > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "DaShiell, Jude T. CIV NAVAIR 1490, 1, 26" > <jude.dashiell@xxxxxxxx> > Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 12:45 PM > To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Subject: RE: Why isn't Open Office on Windows Accessible? > >> Well, maybe Oracle can make a case. What I'd like to see the Courts > do >> is to give Oracle a provisional victory such that for as long as > Oracle >> actively supports Android software development they can continue to >> collect money. When they discontinue support, their time to collect >> money from Android would also properly end. Now if such a precedent > as >> that were extended to cover the rest of the software industry, I think >> we would witness the end of the days when titles were being added to > the >> abandonware list. Also, in that way a collection right comes with a >> software development support responsibility. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Alex Hall >> Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 12:21 >> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> Subject: Re: Why isn't Open Office on Windows Accessible? >> >> Well, Oracle bought Sun Micro Systems, so they bought Java along with >> everything else owned by Sun. Now, since Android is written in Java >> and runs atop a virtual machine, Oracle is trying to say that they are >> entitled to some of the money made by Android since it is written in a >> language Oracle now owns. >> >> On 8/18/10, katherine Moss <plymouthroamer285@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>> Holy moly! What's going on there? What's Oracle suing Google for? >>> >>> >>> >>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Don > Marang >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 2:38 AM >>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>> Subject: Re: Why isn't Open Office on Windows Accessible? >>> >>> >>> >>> Is all Android app development based on Google's version of Java? > Are >> there >>> reasonable resources I can point developers to for Android >> accessibility >>> implementation? As a potential user / tinkerer, I would like to know >> as >>> well and hopefully be in a better position to provide positive >> feedback. >>> >>> >>> >>> Will the threatened Oracle lawsuit of Google over Java damage >> Android's >>> success? Will it destroy inovation and Open Source if they win? >>> >>> Don Marang >>> >>> >>> >>> There is just so much stuff in the world that, to me, is devoid of > any >> real >>> substance, value, and content that I just try to make sure that I am >> working >>> on things that matter. >>> Dean Kamen >>> >>> >>> >>> From: Ken Perry <mailto:whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>> >>> Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 7:52 PM >>> >>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>> >>> Subject: RE: Why isn't Open Office on Windows Accessible? >>> >>> >>> >>> This is sort of what Android is doing even if they have not went far >> enough >>> yet. They have an accessible event that is thrown by all controls >> excepting >>> static and some other problems but at any rate if you use basic >> controls you >>> get the accessible events if however you want to make a custom action >> you >>> can also throw accessible events that the screen readers like talk >> back will >>> catch and speak or the accessibility tools like kick back and sound >> back can >>> catch and do something with. So its part developer putting in > special >>> access and part developer using the controls that are already >> accessible. >>> The unfortunate problem is what you get is only part accessible in >> most >>> cases. I am not saying Android is not accessible I am saying what >> Android >>> is once again proving is if you leave it up to the developer at all > us >> as >>> developers are too lazy to do it. Take me for example if I as a > blind >> coder >>> wrote a scrabble game I would not think of special cases for high >> resolution >>> graphic cards to have spinning tiles or something to make the game >> more >>> interesting for a sited player. I would be shooting for my target >> audience. >>> The reverse is even worse not only are sighted programmers used to >> rapid >>> development and anything that slows them down out, but they wouldn't >> know >>> what we need to have sent to make something accessible unless we > point >> it >>> out. Here is an example under the Android platform. The default >> media >>> player has very accessible artist and song lists. But when you open >> them >>> they say nothing for example When you open the media layer you are on >> a tab >>> screen and when you arrow left and right it says artist albums and >> songs. >>> If you click on artist nothing happens or at least as a blind person >> hears >>> it nothing at all happens. If however you are sighted you will > notice >> that >>> a whole list below opens up sort of like a tree but it's more like an >>> expanded list. If you don't know what you're doing and you click on >> it >>> again because you thought nothing happened it would close the list. >> Now a >>> sighted coder wouldn't know this is a problem and the current access >> frame >>> work doesn't take this into account. What should have happened is a >> open >>> event should have been thrown even though focus didn't change there >> should >>> have been a notification. Well it would have cost maybe 10 lines a >> code to >>> make this work but those lines are not easy to find and if you don't >> know it >>> needs to be there well you're not going to go looking in the > View.java >> class >>> and the accessible_inf_event.java class to figure out how it works >> because >>> you don't know you need to. >>> >>> >>> >>> So how do we fix this? My answer is better thought out tool kits. >> Once the >>> developers can just use and it will be accessible. If they make >> accustom >>> control then don't do something for accessibility it will error. > Will >> this >>> ever happen. My answer is no but shrug I hope I am wrong. >>> >>> >>> >>> Ken >>> >>> >>> >>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jay >> Macarty >>> Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 1:29 AM >>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>> Subject: Re: Why isn't Open Office on Windows Accessible? >>> >>> >>> >>> One of the ideas I have been toying with for the java screen reader >> (either >>> we4java or jac) is providing a set of runtime annotations which could >> be >>> used to enhance an application's accessibility by allowing the app >> developer >>> to put in self voicing annotations. There are differing schools of >> thought >>> on self voicing. Some say it is good because the developer knows the >> app >>> best and where self voicing would be helpful. On the other hand, >> putting in >>> self voicing without providing the user a way of controling it or >> turning >>> off certain levels of it, takes away from the user's control over the >>> accessibility feedback. If we put self voicing annotations into the >> java >>> screen reader, a developer could add them in if desired but the base >> screen >>> reader code base would still have control and could provide a common >>> mechanism for allowing the user to adjust the self voicing feedback. >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> >>> From: Ken Perry <mailto:whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>> >>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>> >>> Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 5:20 PM >>> >>> Subject: RE: Why isn't Open Office on Windows Accessible? >>> >>> >>> >>> I agree with Chris H.'s answer but I want to point out it's our fault >> it's >>> not already accessible. I wrote a simple talking java screen reader >> that >>> did very little but it made it so I could use Open Office. Crappily >> but the >>> buttons talked and all and I did this in like 200 lines of code. I >> know >>> that code got passed around and I have since lost my copy but it can >> be >>> done by replacing the access bridge with self voicing code. It just >> takes >>> someone actually doing it. >>> >>> >>> >>> I am interested to see where Open Office goes now that it is Oricals. >> I am >>> worried about all Java stuff now that Orical is trying to Sew Google >> into >>> stopping Android. It's a crazy world. >>> >>> >>> >>> Ken >>> >>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Kerneels >> Roos >>> Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 3:30 AM >>> To: programmingblind >>> Subject: Why isn't Open Office on Windows Accessible? >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi List, >>> >>> Sorry if this question has been raised before and dealt with. Does >> anyone >>> know exactly why the Windows version of Open Office is only partly >>> accessible with a screen reader, while the Linux version is streets >> ahead? >>> Because Open Office is written in Java I assume the code base is 98% >>> identical across platforms. Is the problem mainly with the JAB (Java >> Access >>> Bridge) or with the screen readers themselves? Could the JAB not be >> open >>> sourced so it can be updated to bridge Java, MSAA, UIA and any other >> access >>> middle ware standard? >>> >>> NVDA works the best with Open Office, so I would assume it makes the >> best >>> use of the JAB. Is there other Java to access technology middle ware >> in >>> common use today? >>> >>> I can remember a really long thread that in part had some info on > Java >>> accessibility, but I just can't justify going through all that to >> possibly >>> find out more. >>> >>> Keep well >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kerneels Roos >>> Cell/SMS: +27 (0)82 309 1998 >>> Skype: cornelis.roos >>> >>> The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the > cheese! >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >>> database 5376 (20100818) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Have a great day, >> Alex (msg sent from GMail website) >> mehgcap@xxxxxxxxx; http://www.facebook.com/mehgcap >> __________ >> View the list's information and change your settings at >> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >> >> __________ >> View the list's information and change your settings at >> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >> >> > __________ > View the list's information and change your settings at > //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind > > __________ > View the list's information and change your settings at > //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind > > -- Have a great day, Alex (msg sent from GMail website) mehgcap@xxxxxxxxx; http://www.facebook.com/mehgcap __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind