RE: Getting started learning VB6

  • From: Johannes Grib <johannesg@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: "programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 08:23:26 +0200

All, 
Interesting to see how every one "AsUMe" a formal education is in an ICT 
disiplin.
I personally know people with LLB's who are now working as senior developers.

I would not want to be with out the tools I got from my univercity training, 
helps a lot with the analitics especially when complexity steps in.

Just a little perspective some times goes a long way.

Steven Covey's "paradyme shift concept" tought me to ask questions before my 
mouth gets me in trouble.

Jacques, perhaps for the people who do not know you, you might want to tell 
them what you did at the univercity of Pretoria when I visited you to help with 
your assistive technology.


Kindest







-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jacques Bosch
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 8:01
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Getting started learning VB6

Hi Rick.

To be fair you have to give the guy without the degree 4 years of experience. 
<smile> I think you guys are hearing what I am not saying. I can't even 
remember how we got hear any more. I am not promoting the idea of not aspiring 
to a formal education. I am just saying that it is possible the other way also, 
and a lot of passion and hard work.
In the end of the day it comes down to whether somebody can get the job done, 
get it done in the right way for any given environment. And yes, universities 
can give you a good push in the right direction, however, it boils right down 
to the individual in the end.

Something interesting that I experienced in the software company where I was 
part owner; Over a period of 2 years we had to fill several positions. We must 
have interviewed about 30 candidates in total. What really got to us where 
these people fresh out of university with their degrees that thought they were 
the big answer, and then they totally and utterly crash in the practical test 
which was a very simple program. They had to write a console application in 
their language of choice, when given a root folder, to list the nested folder 
structure below it. We did not tell them to use recursion. (Wait, eventually we 
did start telling them after they made no headway, but it didn't help any).
Before we realized the power of the practical test to separate those who had a 
clue from those who did not, we appointed 2 guys with formal degrees from 
respected universities. The one guy had a good attitude, but was virtually 
useless in terms of any productivity for the next 18 months because he had to 
learn how things worked in the real world. The other guys was an absolute 
disaster. He actually had the degree and several years experience, and was 
extremely smooth and knowledgeable sounding in the interview, and was appointed 
as a senior developer, but was the worst thing we ever did in the company. He 
was clueless, had a bad attitude, but expected all the dues of a "senior" 
position.
There were two other guys, that did not have a degree. The 1 had a 1 year 
diploma, and the other had nothing. These were the two that really shined, and 
besides me and my partner, they made the company work. They were the "junior" 
developers, but blew the other two out of the water. They ended up doing / 
redoing the "senior" guys work.

Again, this is just experience and not an argument against getting a formal 
education. But if I ever hire again, I will make damn sure that I am not conned 
by the implied competence of a degree, but that the person really does know the 
first thing about software engineering in the real world.
I'd rather take somebody that has the aptitude, and good attitude, without the 
degree, and mentor them on the job, than somebody who has a degree, and think 
they know everything, and have to teach them just as much.
All other things being equal though, I would take the person with the degree. 
<smile>

Jacques


On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 12:51 AM, The Elf <inthaneelf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


        *sigh*
        
        I disagree with your assessment of visual ability and past capabilities 
and choice of GUI or console programming.
        
        also that is not the only place and way to learn, I have some resources 
and a site that it's original use was for blind programmers, Jamal Mazrui has a 
site devoted to this topic, etc.
        
        my sight is the grab bag site listed under my name below, and Jamal's 
is:
        www.NonvisualDevelopment.org
        
        I do grant that you should go to VB.net or better C#.net so your 
starting out in a current language, and either the vb.net 2008 will work good, 
and I hear that 2010 does work with a few more difficulties.
        
        HTH,

        elf
        Moderator, Blind Access Help
        Owner: Alacorn Computer Enterprises
        Specialists in customized computers and peripherals
        - own the might and majesty of a Alacorn!
        www.alacorncomputer.com
        proprietor, The Grab Bag,
        for blind computer users and programmers
        http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com
        
        
        ----- Original Message ----- From: "DaShiell, Jude T. CIV NAVAIR 1490, 
1, 26" <jude.dashiell@xxxxxxxx>
        To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
        Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 8:31 AM

        Subject: RE: Getting started learning VB6
        
        
        There may not be enough money to use and learn dot net.  Fortunately,
        mono can be installed and will run on Windows as well as Linux and the
        price tag is $0.00.
        
        
        -----Original Message-----
        From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of DaShiell,
        Jude T. CIV NAVAIR 1490, 1, 26
        Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 11:28
        To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        Subject: RE: Getting started learning VB6
        
        No, not without knowing your visual status.  If you have memory of
        having had vision or better yet have a little useable vision your best
        bet would be to learn the language with windows forms.  If you have no
        memory of vision, then your best bet would be to learn the language
        using the console interface, and these are two completely different
        paths.
        
        
        -----Original Message-----
        From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Otis D Blue
        Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 11:22
        To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        Subject: Getting started learning VB6
        
        Hi,
        
        Could someone suggest where I can go to learn how to use VB as a
        beginner?
        I would like to get the understanding of the language and how to create
        software with it.
        
        Otis Blue
        
        Join Blind-entrepreneurs by subscribing at
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-- 

Jacques Bosch 

Software Architecture and Development
Independent Contractor
Cell: +27 824711807 Fax: +27 86 504 4726
E-Mail: jfbosch@xxxxxxxxx   


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