Re: Case sensitivity - feedback welcome
- From: Andreas Stefik <stefika@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 22:15:13 -0500
Thanks a ton folks. This may sound like a simple question, but getting
these issues of how we process the audio is really important to our
team. This has been a very helpful thread.
Stefik
On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 4:16 PM, qubit <lauraeaves@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Hi -- I have only one comment on mixed case identification. I once used an
> old screen reader (VertPlus I believe it was) that had the option of putting
> a beep immediately before a capital while spelling out a word. At first
> this seemed like it would be a good choice, but when I put it on I found
> that my brain actually processed the beeps independently of the text being
> read. I mean, if it was going fast, I heard the beeps, and the letters
> blasting by, but I couldn't fit the beeps with the characters, even with a
> little pause between characters for the beep.
> Having the synth speak "cap" or whatever takes time to listen to, but like
> speaking punctuation, I find I can process this -- but raising pitch of
> capital letters is probably my preferred setting.
>
> Anyway, I'd be interested in anyone else's experience.
> Happy listening.
> --le
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Kerneels Roos
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 2:11 AM
> Subject: Re: Case sensitivity - feedback welcome
> If I'm not mistaking, some components of emacspeak, the speech system for
> emacs performs a type of audio syntax highlighting which is probably out of
> scope for the Sodbeans project. Everyone has their own preferences regarding
> this topic, as usual, which is good but highlights the need for customisable
> behaviour. Not sure if someone has mentioned this yet, but a short beep just
> before speaking a camel case word which starts with a capital could also be
> helpful. For full caps words, like what is common for constants in C and C++
> the whole word could be spoken with a significantly raised pitch. There are
> basically these things to identify via audio output:
> 1. Does the word start with a capital?
> 2. Is the word camel case?
> 3. Is the word all caps?
>
> Then there are these auditory queues:
> 1. Short beep.
> 2. Higher pitch.
> 3. Say "caps".
> 4. Say "caps caps".
> 5. Use another voice.
>
> Sounds are much faster than speaking something and it could even be played
> while the word is spoken.
>
> What would work best would depend on the programming language, the
> perceptiveness of the listener and the frequency of particular syntax
> patterns.
>
> Regards,
> Kerneels
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 6:10 AM, Dave <davidct1209@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>> To echo some of what others have said... Style conventions in the
>> language itself such as #define vars being all capped, classes capped,
>> etc becomes almost second nature after some experience with the
>> language.
>>
>> Certain languages do present interesting challenges. I'm looking at
>> you lisp, and objective C. Having voice changes reflect syntax
>> highlighting could be a very interesting and potentially helpful
>> feature for someone who's reading code as opposed to writing with the
>> use of a screen reader. As screen readers mostly come with text unit
>> type navigation, I believe it would be helpful to overlay a "voice"
>> map. For example, keywords would be spoken in a different voice than
>> variables or constants.
>>
>> On 6/3/10, Øyvind Lode <oyvind.lode@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> > Same goes for C#.
>> > I'm trying to learn to program.
>> > I decided to go with C# which is a case sensitive language, but I have
>> > no
>> > problem with that at all.
>> > A Braille display is very handy <smile>
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Stanzel,
>> > Susan -
>> > Kansas City, MO
>> > Sent: 3. juni 2010 21:02
>> > To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > Subject: RE: Case sensitivity - feedback welcome
>> >
>> > Hi Listers,
>> >
>> > I program in Java and this is a case sensitive computer language. I
>> > would
>> > need to know rather dramatically if the first letter of a word, a cap in
>> > the
>> > middle (like in the beginning of a second and subsequent word, or the
>> > entire
>> > word is in caps.
>> >
>> > Susie Stanzel
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jamal Mazrui
>> > Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 12:58 PM
>> > To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > Cc: Andreas Stefik; Sodbeans
>> > Subject: Re: Case sensitivity - feedback welcome
>> >
>> > I definately recommend using either PascalCase or camelCase as naming
>> > conventions for identifiers, since screen readers today say the
>> > component words separately, even without white space, which aids
>> > comprehension. I think case-insensitivity of the language, itself,
>> > however, is friendlier to beginners (like Visual Basic, VBScript, or
>> > VBA), rather than a language where casing mistakes trip up the compiler
>> > or interpreter. (Similarly, a language that does not require
>> > indentation is friendlier.) I am not saying that case-sensitivity is a
>> > big deal: just that its absence is friendlier to beginning programmers.
>> >
>> > Jamal
>> >
>> > On 6/3/2010 11:40 AM, Andreas Stefik wrote:
>> >> Hey folks,
>> >>
>> >> Our development team over here is working on the finishing touches on
>> >> the Sodbeans project before release, which is on schedule for early
>> >> July
>> >> (Hooray!). One of the bugs currently listed in our bug database is that
>> >> our text-to-speech engine doesn't distinguish between "case" in
>> >> variable
>> >> names. As I go through and use Voice Over (I'm on mac at the moment), I
>> >> notice that it doesn't distinguish between case in words either,
>> >> although, like most screen readers, it uses prosody to indicate case
>> >> for
>> >> specific letters.
>> >>
>> >> So, I have two questions:
>> >>
>> >> 1. How do most blind individuals deal with case and case sensitivity
>> >> while programming? My guess is that most people, if there's a case
>> >> issue, have go through a variable character by character. Is there
>> >> other
>> >> strategies? Do other screen readers have features for dealing with
>> >> these
>> >> issues?
>> >>
>> >> 2. All else being equal, would it be desirable for the blind community
>> >> to have a programming language be completely case insensitive? Or,
>> >> alternatively, should we output special auditory cues if something is
>> >> in
>> >> Camel Case?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Any thoughts the community is willing to offer would be appreciated.
>> >> What we really want to know is, is this issue a really big deal, or
>> >> does
>> >> it not cause many problems in practice?
>> >>
>> >> Stefik
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>
>
>
> --
> Kerneels Roos
> Cell/SMS: +27 (0)82 309 1998
> Skype: cornelis.roos
>
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