Re: About lisp
- From: "tribble" <lauraeaves@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 13:23:50 -0500
LOL -- well maybe you can salivate over the MUMPS programs you write -- hmm
I agree this is a funny name, but in a way still kind of catchy. At least
you remember the name if nothing else.
When I was working there was a department in research that was trying to
write an integrated programming environment for C (actually in competition
to what I was working on, but as I said that one got cancelled soon after it
was slated for product) -- anyway, the research environment had a c
interpreter called CIN and a gui environment named VICE -- so CIN and Vice
won out over our environment which we called IPE... Anyway, people liked the
acronyms CIN and VICE, which was all part of a global effort they called SDI
(for "software development initiative" -- note the similarity to Stretegic
Defense Initiative begun by President Reagan. Also part of the SDI was a
browsing database they called CIA for C Information Abstractor.
Interesting names they chose -- I could tell you more but these I thought
were novel.
Happy hacking.
--le
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Hallsworth" <christopherhallsworth71@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 4:34 PM
Subject: Re: About lisp
Can I just throw in a bit of humour here? I know I don't respond much on
this list, but how can anyone imagine a programming language with the
acronym resembling a highly contagious viral disease of the salivary
glands? Hmmm!
Bob J. wrote:
> Inthane,
>
> MUMPS (as I know it) is an interpreted language that runs on what might
> still be referred to as a "main frame" system. I know of no compiler to
> generate a stand-alone executable file from MUMPS code that could be run
> in
> the Microsoft Windows environment.
>
> If anybody knows of one, I would be interested in hearing about it.
>
> Bob
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "inthaneelf" <inthaneelf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 11:46 AM
> Subject: Re: About lisp
>
>
> bob,
>
> since your familiar with it, would it be useful still to new programmers
> and
> do you think it is a "stand the test of time" language?
>
> if you feel it is, would you be willing to do a fruit basket demo in it so
> I
> can put it up on the fbd site for reference?
>
> if you wish to, there is a downloadable file with the criteria for the
> demo
> project on the site at:
> http://fruitbasketdemo.alacorncomputer.com
>
> thanks,
> inthane
> . For Blind Programming assistance, Information, Useful Programs, and
> Links
> to Jamal Mazrui's Text tutorial packages and Applications, visit me at:
> http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com
> . to be able to view a simple programming project in several programming
> languages, visit the Fruit basket demo site at:
> http://fruitbasketdemo.alacorncomputer.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob J." <rjustice004@xxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 10:47 AM
> Subject: Re: About lisp
>
>
>> Last I heard, MUMPS is still alive and well although they now prefer to
>> call
>> it "M Technology." I retired as a MUMPS programmer about 17 months ago
>> from
>> the U. S. Department of Veterans Affairs. The curious may find info
>> about
>> this ANSI language at
>> www.hardhats.org
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Adrian Beech" <a.beech@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 5:03 AM
>> Subject: RE: About lisp
>>
>>
>> Yikes, Snobol... never thought I'd see that one mentioned again! To add
>> to
>> the trip down memory lane how about PL/1, ADA, Mumps, Simula64, BCPL,
>> Prolog
>> and and for good measure Modula-2.
>>
>> Sigh, the glory days of C... when real programmers didn't eat quiche :)
>>
>> Cheers.
>> AB
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of tribble
>> Sent: Thursday, 28 February 2008 8:26 AM
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: About lisp
>>
>> Yes, I think you are right -- there are a lot of general purpose
>> languages
>> out there lately. That is curious. It used to be languages were
>> application specific -- fortran (formula translation) for engineers,
>> snobol
>> for string and list processing, a few functional languages for highly
>> specialized recursive apps, apl for obfuscated math (sorry, apl read
>> right
>> to left and was painfully terse and tool a while getting used to), cobol
>> for
>>
>> people who wanted to program database apps in english *smile*, web
>> programming or markup languages for the net when it emerged, and dozens
>> more -- when I was working they had application oriented languages (which
>> they called AOL's) for use on the phone system software, I think with
>> the
>> explosion of AOL's there was a desire to write a general purpose language
>> that could do everything. Then smalltalk and eiffel and c++ et al came
>> along and then java and c#, and extensions to vb and perl/php to do
>> OO-like
>> designs, and python and ruby and whatever else...
>> My fingers are getting tired *smile*
>> So there is many to one and one to many and this keeps hoards of
>> programmers
>>
>> employed as they try to grab the coolest features for their
>> projects...*smile*
>> I think it's interesting that python is indentation sensitive. Sounds
>> like
>> a pain for blind programmers that don't look at indentation, but I also
>> think it is a plus for those same programmers as it makes for code that
>> can
>> be shared with sighted programmers.
>> Anyway, happy hacking!
>> --le
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Chris Hofstader" <chris.hofstader@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 7:10 AM
>> Subject: RE: About lisp
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I always thought of that other editor as: type vi at the command prompt
>> and
>> very little will change.
>>
>> The one thing that I'm a bit curious about these days is why the sudden
>> explosion of new languages? For the longest time, a platform had its
>> primary language, UNIX, GNU/Linux and DOS used C, Macintosh had some
>> dialect
>> of Pascal and AppleEvents, mainframes had Fortran and COBOL, VMS had
>> PL/I.
>> There were also a lot of narrowly focused languages like Lisp for AI
>> work,
>> DB2 for databases, JCL for making your mainframe happy, etc.
>>
>> In the last few years, though, I see an increasingly large number of
>> general
>> purpose languages arriving on the scene (Ruby, Python, Lua, C#, J#, Java
>> and
>> a bunch more) and I can't entirely understand why so many people are
>> investing so much time and money in programming languages.
>>
>> cdh
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of tribble
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 6:38 AM
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: About lisp
>>
>> Hey Chris -- I never heard that historical vignette about emacs -- thanks
>> for the flashback! I remember that time period but at the time I was
>> using
>> "that other editor", vi, but emacs definitely was a major presence. It's
>> funny but it is easy to lapse into nostalgia over cool projects that we
>> were
>>
>> working on back then, especially if the software got popular and used by
>> a
>> lot of people, but in the corporate world with management shooting down
>> projects like ducks, they used to tell people not to get emotionally
>> attached to projects, which a lot of people did, both guys and gals, so
>> the
>> dynamics were crazy -- but my response to the recommendation not to get
>> attached to a project was that after picking bits for 60 hours a week for
>> months or years on a piece of software, and seeing it trashed, it really
>> wasn't possible to dissociate from a project totally -- you needed to
>> like
>> the project in order to put that much effort into it, but projects came
>> and
>> went so fast you soon learned to be mercenary.
>> I think the 80s and 90s were pivotal in computer science though, so small
>> bit-picking projects such as DOS for example (not that I ever worked on
>> DOS)
>>
>> exploded into phenomena like Microsoft and windows that took over the
>> world,
>>
>> and the stuff we all did on C++ back in the 80s and 90s also was pivotal,
>> and when it started getting popular everyone was trying to jump onto it.
>> I
>> suppose times are similar now, but not so much as in the 80s and 90s --
>> for
>> all those currently working in the industry, is that true? My impression
>> is
>>
>> that projects are smaller and more numerous and come and go more quickly.
>> Happy hacking all!
>> --le
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Chris Hofstader" <chris.hofstader@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 6:03 AM
>> Subject: RE: About lisp
>>
>>
>> Of course, you are correct I wasn't referring to a GUI for programming in
>> Lisp as, back in those days, emacs was the Lisp programming environment
>> for
>> Lisp hacking and virtually all of those guys agreed upon it as the best
>> solution. Goz wrote the first emacs in some strange system that was
>> difficult and even more difficult to modify. Stallman and the others
>> agreed
>> that Lisp was the perfect language for making editors and other tools
>> like
>> them and thus was born the emacs we all know and love. When Goz went off
>> to
>> commercialize all of the cool system tools made around the AI lab in
>> those
>> days, he took the Lisp version and called it UniPress emacs. Stallman
>> and
>> the others founding Project GNU gave distributed the Lisp based one as
>> GNU
>> emacs.
>>
>> Getting all nostalgic again: back in those years UniPress ran a monthly
>> full
>> page advert in UNIX World with a whole bunch of heads in shadow on a grey
>> background with quotes on why they preferred Gosmacs. At FSF, we took a
>> bit
>> of our fundraising budget and got photos of a big chunk of the computer
>> science pantheon (including Minsky, McCarthy, Guy Steele, Hal Abelson,
>> Gerry
>> Sussman, Rodney Brooks, Patrick Winston, Knuth, Bob Boyer and others whom
>> I
>> cannot think of with my caffeine mg to hour ratio so dangerously low)
>> and,
>> arranged exactly like their ad but with the text, "GNU Emacs Users Aren't
>> Afraid to Show Our Faces," and, under each giant of the field a quote
>> praising both emacs and another extolling project GNU or the concept of
>> free
>> software.
>>
>> We believe we won the day when Unipress had a totally different ad the
>> following month saying something about how one can never know what they
>> may
>> get if they use a program that includes the source. We fired back with a
>> one luminary per month advertisement series saying exactly why the GNU
>> versions were more stable, more secure and, of course, you don't have to
>> wait for some programmers in New Jersey to fix bugs because you already
>> have
>> the source and can do it yourself. In those years, the proportion of
>> people
>> who read UNIX World who were also programmers of some sort was pretty
>> huge.
>>
>> Sina, I know you aren't fond of emacs but, keep in mind, this debate was
>> going on about a decade before you were born and anything that even
>> approached a integrated development environment was radically cool. Over
>> that decade, we added so much like full integration with lots of
>> languages,
>> gdb and so many other cool things that people take entirely for granted
>> these days. It was a real exciting time to be around the lab, around GNU
>> and, if one had an interest in programming tools, I doubt any other point
>> in
>> space time (except maybe at Parc Place when Adele was in charge) could
>> even
>> give the slightest indication of what it felt like. Knowing you as well
>> as
>> I do, I think you would have felt as though you had stumbled into Xanadu
>> if,
>> at 21 years old, you were like many of the other guys your age who made
>> that
>> stuff happen in the lab back then.
>>
>> I'll go start the history/mid-life crisis list later today.
>>
>> Enjoy,
>> cdh
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sina Bahram
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 11:24 PM
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: RE: About lisp
>>
>> It's interesting that you mentioned a novel windowing system and not a
>> graphics interface for programmers. *smile*, two quite separate things.
>> One
>> deals in abstract terms involving stacks, queues, overlays, priority
>> scheduling, possibly coordinate management, and so on. The other deals
>> with
>> setting the background color to red, defining buttons inside of classes
>> for
>> windows, and generally very dirty looking code. The former can be quite
>> beautiful, and still is, in lisp, the latter is hardly beautiful in any
>> language, especially in lisp.
>>
>> Take care,
>> Sina
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Chris
>> Hofstader
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 10:55 PM
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: RE: About lisp
>>
>> The first known windowing system was written by Richard Greenblatt in
>> Lisp
>> at MIT when he was still a student. He would later go onto Director of
>> AI
>> and then form LMI (Lisp Machines Incorporated) which would be at the
>> center
>> of the controversy that would pit Greenblatt/Stallman and the free
>> software
>> people (Hal, Jerry, Rod, etc.) against those who would form Symbolics and
>> the other proprietary source companies that just took the work from the
>> AI
>> Lab and commercialized it.
>>
>> No one really remembers Symbolics or Goz and that crowd nor does anyone
>> remember LMI. Greenblatt's Sleazy Windowing System, however, has a solid
>> place in history. Unfortunately, Greenblatt and his crew had to invent a
>> new computer designed specifically to run Lisp and the windowing system
>> as
>> nothing on the market had either the horsepower or the kinds of processor
>> instructions needed to run Lisp with any efficiency back then.
>>
>> cdh
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ken Perry
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 8:55 PM
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: RE: About lisp
>>
>>
>>
>> I want to agree with Sina here if your going to write Lisp write lisp
>> don't
>> try to shove GUI into it cause that just spells guilisp and unless you
>> have
>> the flew you don't need that.
>>
>> Ken
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sina Bahram
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 5:37 PM
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: RE: About lisp
>>
>> Ken did a great job with that one, and he realized a great deal of the
>> headache that goes into lisp and GUI programming, but I will say that it
>> is
>> a horrible example of lisp. This has nothing at all to do with Ken's
>> code,
>> which is great. It's just that the lisp fruit basket is not
>> representative
>> of the really powerful phrasings of most problems that can exist in lisp,
>> and instead it ends up being multi-line calls of special parameters to
>> functions to design a win32 dialog.
>>
>> Take care,
>> Sina
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of inthaneelf
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 8:23 PM
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: About lisp
>>
>> I believe I have some info on lisp in the definitions file for the fruit
>> basket demo version in that language, either that or I got some info from
>> one of the computer dictionaries on a search from it, both of which have
>> links on the fruit basket home page.
>>
>> HTH,
>> Inthane
>> . For Blind Programming assistance, Information, Useful Programs, and
>> Links
>> to Jamal Mazrui's Text tutorial packages and Applications, visit me at:
>> http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com
>> . to be able to view a simple programming project in several programming
>> languages, visit the Fruit basket demo site at:
>> http://fruitbasketdemo.alacorncomputer.com
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "tribble" <lauraeaves@xxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 6:20 AM
>> Subject: Re: About lisp
>>
>>
>>> Re: apl
>>> I wonder if it was just one of those academic languages there only for
>>> the purpose of teaching a comparative language class... Which leads
>>> me to the
>>> following: Did anyone ever program in a language called icon? It was
>>> popular when I got my masters, but I haven't heard of it lately...
>>> --le
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Chris Hofstader" <chris.hofstader@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 6:05 AM
>>> Subject: RE: About lisp
>>>
>>>
>>> I never even met someone who programmed in APL. My brother made his
>>> living in SmallTalk and all of its graphicality for a while but now
>>> he's working for Microsoft and, I'd assume, he works using their
>>> languages.
>>>
>>> cdh
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sina
>>> Bahram
>>> Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 8:41 PM
>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: RE: About lisp
>>>
>>> APL is such an amazingly cool sounding language ... I really tried to
>>> get into it a while back, but it's not easy to program in a graphical
>>> programming language, *grin*
>>>
>>> Take care,
>>> Sina
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of tribble
>>> Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 3:15 PM
>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: Re: About lisp
>>>
>>> ah yes, snobol -- loved that language -- memories -- the runtime
>>> environment we used to run snobol was called spitbol (kind of weird)
>>> -- did you ever write anything in apl? That was a fun one also that
>>> stretched the mind a bit. I don't know about current use of lisp.
>>> --le
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Macarty, Jay {PBSG}" <Jay.Macarty@xxxxxxxx>
>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 6:01 PM
>>> Subject: About lisp
>>>
>>>
>>> Sina,
>>> Way back in the day, I took a course on languages which covered about
>>> 8 different ones in a single course. Probably the most obscure of
>>> these was snobol for which a class mate and I wrote an interpreter. I
>>> recall studying lisp but was wondering what it is generally used for
>>> these days and if a free command line compiler is available?
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sina
>>> Bahram
>>> Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 9:03 AM
>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: RE: what is Hex?
>>>
>>> You're absolutely correct my friend. Needless to say I feel extremely
>>> bad about this. Sorry!
>>>
>>> I sat down and wrote out -127 in twos complement and realized I can
>>> also represent -128.
>>>
>>> Obviously this applies to 32 bit representations and so on, as well.
>>>
>>> Sorry again ... It appears that programming in lisp and java have
>>> dulled my senses.
>>>
>>> Take care,
>>> Sina
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>>
>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Nirandas
>>> Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 12:02 AM
>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: Re: what is Hex?
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Sina,
>>> As I understand, a byte can contain 256 unique values. So a signed
>>> byte's maximum and minimum range should be -128 to 127 not
>>> -127 to 127.
>>>
>>>
>>> Nirandas
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Sina Bahram <mailto:sbahram@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 9:50 AM
>>> Subject: RE: what is Hex?
>>>
>>>
>>> Again, I'm sorry for the disagreement, but there are several flaws in
>>> this explanation. I've attempted to correct them below.
>>>
>>> The standard byte's signed values are -127 to 127, not -128 to 127 ...
>>> it's being picky, but this is extremely important and the source of
>>> 90% of most security flaws today.
>>>
>>> A standard word is a misnomer. This assumes a two byte word which is
>>> only true on 16-bit architecture. A word can be 16 bits, 32-bits, or
>>> even
>>> 11 bits
>>> in some platforms ... it just depends. A double word can be 32 bits,
>>> but it can also be 16 bits in some platforms or not even supported in
>>> others, so there is no standard here.
>>>
>>> However, using twos complement, I must again clarrify the minimum and
>>> maximum of a 16 bit value, since it is not -32768 to 32767, I'm
>>> afraid, but is instead -32767 to 32767
>>>
>>> As for a 32 bit value, the minimum and maximum are as follows.
>>>
>>> Using twos complement, the signed minimum and maximum of a 32-bit
>>> integer are -2147483647 to 2147483647 , and the minimum and maximum of
>>> an unsigned
>>> 32 bit integer are 0 to 4294967295
>>>
>>> Hope this clears things up.
>>>
>>> Take care,
>>> Sina
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ian D.
>>> Nichols
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 5:40 PM
>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: Re: what is Hex?
>>>
>>> Hi Listers,
>>>
>>> As I see it, things have become a little muddled here, both in James's
>>> message and in Sina's reply.
>>>
>>> The standard byte is still 8 bits, containing unsigned values of 0 to
>>> 255 and signed values of -128 to +127.
>>>
>>> The word contains 16 bits, with unsigned values of 0 to 65535, and
>>> signed values of -32768 to +32767.
>>>
>>> The double word contains 32 bits, with very large values possible.
>>> Unsigned, 0 to 4 thousand millions, and signed values from -2
>>> thousand millions to + 2 thousand millions, more or less.
>>>
>>> I hope I've got my thinking straight on that, and haven't caused
>>> further confusion.
>>>
>>> All the best,
>>>
>>> Ian
>>>
>>> Ian D. Nichols,
>>> Toronto, Canada
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Sina Bahram" <sbahram@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 4:58 PM
>>> Subject: RE: what is Hex?
>>>
>>>
>>> A few things. big endian versus little endian is arbritrary, so it's
>>> not a fact with respect to storage.
>>>
>>> More importantly, the minimum and maximum of a signed 32 bit integer
>>> is not
>>> -65535 to 65535, it's actually -32767 to 32767
>>>
>>> If it is signed, then it is 0 to 65535
>>>
>>> At the end of the day, you only have 2^16 permutations of 16 bits in a
>>> binary system; thus, you have a maximum of 65536 positions, and so you
>>> have half as much capacity if you are using twos complement to allow
>>> for both negative numbers and the concept of 0.
>>>
>>> Hope this helps
>>>
>>> Take care,
>>> Sina
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of James
>>> Panes
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 2:35 PM
>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: Re: what is Hex?
>>>
>>> Yes, Hexidecimal numbers are 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, A, B, C, D,
>>> E, F for a total of 16 possible digit values.
>>>
>>> As stated before, this is much more convenient for the computer as
>>> 16 is an
>>> even power of 2 and computers actually use binary, 0 and 1. The
>>> hexidecimal representation is actually easier for humans to read than
>>> binary.
>>> Hexidecimal digits are grouped into groups of 2 for a total of 16 x
>>> 16 or
>>> 256 possible values. This is a standard byte. Before unicode, a single
>>> byte value was used to represent an alphanumeric character and two
>>> bytes or a word were used to represent a 32 bit integer with values
>>> possible from
>>> -65535 to 65535. This explains the limit of the size of variables in
>>> older games.
>>>
>>> The original Intel 8086 processor had 16 bit registers. Operations for
>>> anything larger had to be synthisized with software.
>>>
>>> What's more, for integer values larger than 255, the least significant
>>> pair of digits is stored first. For example, if you were looking for
>>> the value
>>> 301 (decimal) in a game save file, you would find it represented as
>>> 23 01 in
>>> the save file.
>>>
>>> Since this list is about programming and not game save file hacking, I
>>> will end my lecture here.
>>>
>>> Anyone with further interest in this topic can write me off-list
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Jim
>>> jimpanes@xxxxxxxxx
>>> jimpanes@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> "Everything is easy when you know how."
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Valiant (on laptop)" <valiant@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 8:43 AM
>>> Subject: Re: what is Hex?
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi.
>>> I didn't see anyone mention this part about hex.
>>> Hex is just another number scale like the standard one 0 to 9 or the
>>> binary one 0 to 1. Hex is 0 to f I think, making it bass 16, where the
>>> one we use every day 0 to 9 is bass 10 and binary is bass, hmm,
>>> someone help? 0 to 1?
>>> The possible digits in hex are 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, a, b, c, d,
>>> e, f can't remember if hex starts with 0. It lets you have larger
>>> numbers without taking up as much space. MAC addresses on networking
>>> equipment use it.
>>> some of that could be wrong, it's been two whole years since I had to
>>> study that, here.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Sina Bahram" <sbahram@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 4:03 PM
>>> Subject: RE: what is Hex?
>>>
>>>
>>> 21, but yes he is, Thanks Chris
>>>
>>> Take care,
>>> Sina
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Marlon
>>> Brandão de Sousa
>>> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 12:12 PM
>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: Re: what is Hex?
>>>
>>> Are you serious about Sina being 22 years old only? Man I have seen
>>> people who have studied computers for many more than this quantity of
>>> years and don't seen to know a half of what Sina knows easily ...
>>> Marlon
>>>
>>> 2008/2/15, Chris Hofstader <chris.hofstader@xxxxxxxxxxx>:
>>>> God Sina, you bring back memories of Z80 and needing to "poke"
>>>> instructions and data into memory before execution. I would have
>>>> thought you, who was born in 1986 would never had to get to that
>>>> level. Personally, I think it's a really valuable exercise even
>>> if
>>>> one never actually needs to use it in a "real" program just to get
>>> a
>>> better understanding of what a processor "sees"
>>>> and how base 16 numbers can be turned into both instructions and
>>> data
>>>> depending upon how the processor looks at them.
>>>>
>>>> In the network edition of "Bank Street Writer" a word processing
>>>> program written entirely in assembly, that was pretty popular in
>>> the
>>>> years before you learned to talk, I added a function called,
>>>> "DON'T_CALL_THIS." If you did call it the program would crash as
>>> the
>>>> instructions looked random. If, however, you looked at the last
>>>> handful of bytes of the program as ASCII, it read "FSMITHISAWORM."
>>>> Frank Smith, a really great guy, was the client on the gig and we
>>>> decided to immortalize him in an Easter Egg that only an ubergeek
>>> could
>>> find.
>>>> Now, just for shits and giggles, try to reconstruct the function
>>> in
>>>> 80x86 assembly and receive the truly wasted chunk of time award.
>>>>
>>>> cdh
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sina
>>>> Bahram
>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 9:28 PM
>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: RE: what is Hex?
>>>>
>>>> *smile*, wlel actually, if you really want to get down to it ...
>>> it can
>>> be.
>>>> Assembler compiles down to executable instructions to the
>>> processor,
>>>> which are most often and most easily read in hex.
>>>>
>>>> I used to know almost all of the 8086 instructions and some of
>>> their
>>>> hex equivalents a while back. It's really useful when analysing
>>>> exploit and virus code.
>>>>
>>>> Take care,
>>>> Sina
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Alex
>>> Hall
>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 8:47 PM
>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: re: what is Hex?
>>>>
>>>> Right, but it almost sounds like some sort of programming
>>> language.
>>>> Have a great day,
>>>> Alex
>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Date sent: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 17:27:12 -0800
>>>>> Subject: re: what is Hex?
>>>>> Hi Alex,
>>>>> It's a shortened form of hexadecimal.
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Joseph
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: Alex Hall <mehgcap@xxxxxxx
>>>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> Date sent: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 20:18:21 -0500
>>>>>> Subject: what is Hex?
>>>>>> Hi all
>>>>>> Whatis this Hex that has been talked about
>>>>> recently?
>>>>>> Have a great day,
>>>>>> Alex
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>>>
>>> --
>>> When you say "I wrote a program that crashed Windows," people just
>>> stare at you blankly and say "Hey, I got those with the system, for
>>> free."
>>> Linus Torvalds
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