Hal is the nicest guy in the AI lab, gjs is the most political and Minsky is kind of like Yoda. McCarthy still has hair to his mid-back, a beard to mid-chest and still wears sandals with purple or pink socks to work, I suppose artificial intelligence hasn't come up with a fashion hints bot that might help him notice that it is no longer 1967 and that this ain't the summer of love. cdh -----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Pratik Patel Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 7:24 AM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: About lisp True enough. But it doesn't change the fact that Jerry and Hal wrote a great textbook. Besides, Minsky enjoys being a contrarian. -----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Chris Hofstader Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 7:18 AM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: About lisp If you get Minsky, Hal, Jerry and McArthy into a room together, you will find out just how much it matters <smile>. -----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Pratik Patel Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 7:12 AM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: About lisp No they haven't changed it. I don't think that should make a difference though. -----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Chris Hofstader Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 6:57 AM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: About lisp Unless they've changed it relatively recently, Hal and Jerry's book uses scheme rather than common lisp. -----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Pratik Patel Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 6:20 AM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: About lisp MIT uses Lisp to teach its Electrical Engineering and Computer Science intro course. The textbook for the course, Structure and interpretation of computer programs / Harold Abelson and Gerald Jay Sussman, with Julie Sussman. -- 2nd ed. (1996), also uses List. It is one of the best, if not the best, intro textbooks I've seen on the subject. And, those of your curious enough to read it, it's available for free online in a perfectly accessible format at http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book.html. Pratik -----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Chris Hofstader Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 6:01 AM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: About lisp What ever happened to the scheme dialect of Lisp? -----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Macarty, Jay {PBSG} Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 9:28 PM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: About lisp Very cool. Got to check this out! Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ken Perry Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 7:26 PM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: About lisp It is used for all kinds of stuff from web bots to AI research tools to you name it. It is one of the more powerful languages out there. If you want this is the best book on the web that includes a lot of stuff you can do with Lisp its called "Practical common lisp" One of the things this book mentions is one Airlines order system on the web is done totally in Lisp. http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ A book that Sina found that is another good Lisp book is http://www.paulgraham.com/onlisp.html Now you also asked for a free lisp compiler I made a fruit basket in Lisp and you can find it on the Grab bag it has Clisp in the zip file so if you unpack the fruit basket example you get the free Clisp and a lot of good libraries with it. Ken -----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Macarty, Jay {PBSG} Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 3:01 PM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: About lisp Sina, Way back in the day, I took a course on languages which covered about 8 different ones in a single course. Probably the most obscure of these was snobol for which a class mate and I wrote an interpreter. I recall studying lisp but was wondering what it is generally used for these days and if a free command line compiler is available? -----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sina Bahram Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 9:03 AM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: what is Hex? You're absolutely correct my friend. Needless to say I feel extremely bad about this. Sorry! I sat down and wrote out -127 in twos complement and realized I can also represent -128. Obviously this applies to 32 bit representations and so on, as well. Sorry again ... It appears that programming in lisp and java have dulled my senses. Take care, Sina ________________________________ From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Nirandas Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 12:02 AM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: what is Hex? Hi Sina, As I understand, a byte can contain 256 unique values. So a signed byte's maximum and minimum range should be -128 to 127 not -127 to 127. Nirandas ----- Original Message ----- From: Sina Bahram <mailto:sbahram@xxxxxxxxx> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 9:50 AM Subject: RE: what is Hex? Again, I'm sorry for the disagreement, but there are several flaws in this explanation. I've attempted to correct them below. The standard byte's signed values are -127 to 127, not -128 to 127 ... it's being picky, but this is extremely important and the source of 90% of most security flaws today. A standard word is a misnomer. This assumes a two byte word which is only true on 16-bit architecture. A word can be 16 bits, 32-bits, or even 11 bits in some platforms ... it just depends. A double word can be 32 bits, but it can also be 16 bits in some platforms or not even supported in others, so there is no standard here. However, using twos complement, I must again clarrify the minimum and maximum of a 16 bit value, since it is not -32768 to 32767, I'm afraid, but is instead -32767 to 32767 As for a 32 bit value, the minimum and maximum are as follows. Using twos complement, the signed minimum and maximum of a 32-bit integer are -2147483647 to 2147483647 , and the minimum and maximum of an unsigned 32 bit integer are 0 to 4294967295 Hope this clears things up. Take care, Sina -----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ian D. Nichols Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 5:40 PM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: what is Hex? Hi Listers, As I see it, things have become a little muddled here, both in James's message and in Sina's reply. The standard byte is still 8 bits, containing unsigned values of 0 to 255 and signed values of -128 to +127. The word contains 16 bits, with unsigned values of 0 to 65535, and signed values of -32768 to +32767. The double word contains 32 bits, with very large values possible. Unsigned, 0 to 4 thousand millions, and signed values from -2 thousand millions to + 2 thousand millions, more or less. I hope I've got my thinking straight on that, and haven't caused further confusion. All the best, Ian Ian D. Nichols, Toronto, Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sina Bahram" <sbahram@xxxxxxxxx> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 4:58 PM Subject: RE: what is Hex? A few things. big endian versus little endian is arbritrary, so it's not a fact with respect to storage. More importantly, the minimum and maximum of a signed 32 bit integer is not -65535 to 65535, it's actually -32767 to 32767 If it is signed, then it is 0 to 65535 At the end of the day, you only have 2^16 permutations of 16 bits in a binary system; thus, you have a maximum of 65536 positions, and so you have half as much capacity if you are using twos complement to allow for both negative numbers and the concept of 0. Hope this helps Take care, Sina -----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of James Panes Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 2:35 PM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: what is Hex? Yes, Hexidecimal numbers are 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, A, B, C, D, E, F for a total of 16 possible digit values. As stated before, this is much more convenient for the computer as 16 is an even power of 2 and computers actually use binary, 0 and 1. The hexidecimal representation is actually easier for humans to read than binary. Hexidecimal digits are grouped into groups of 2 for a total of 16 x 16 or 256 possible values. This is a standard byte. Before unicode, a single byte value was used to represent an alphanumeric character and two bytes or a word were used to represent a 32 bit integer with values possible from -65535 to 65535. This explains the limit of the size of variables in older games. The original Intel 8086 processor had 16 bit registers. Operations for anything larger had to be synthisized with software. What's more, for integer values larger than 255, the least significant pair of digits is stored first. For example, if you were looking for the value 301 (decimal) in a game save file, you would find it represented as 23 01 in the save file. Since this list is about programming and not game save file hacking, I will end my lecture here. Anyone with further interest in this topic can write me off-list Regards, Jim jimpanes@xxxxxxxxx jimpanes@xxxxxxxxxxxx "Everything is easy when you know how." ----- Original Message ----- From: "Valiant (on laptop)" <valiant@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 8:43 AM Subject: Re: what is Hex? Hi. I didn't see anyone mention this part about hex. Hex is just another number scale like the standard one 0 to 9 or the binary one 0 to 1. Hex is 0 to f I think, making it bass 16, where the one we use every day 0 to 9 is bass 10 and binary is bass, hmm, someone help? 0 to 1? The possible digits in hex are 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, a, b, c, d, e, f can't remember if hex starts with 0. It lets you have larger numbers without taking up as much space. MAC addresses on networking equipment use it. some of that could be wrong, it's been two whole years since I had to study that, here. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sina Bahram" <sbahram@xxxxxxxxx> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 4:03 PM Subject: RE: what is Hex? 21, but yes he is, Thanks Chris Take care, Sina -----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Marlon Brandão de Sousa Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 12:12 PM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: what is Hex? Are you serious about Sina being 22 years old only? Man I have seen people who have studied computers for many more than this quantity of years and don't seen to know a half of what Sina knows easily ... Marlon 2008/2/15, Chris Hofstader <chris.hofstader@xxxxxxxxxxx>: > God Sina, you bring back memories of Z80 and needing to "poke" > instructions and data into memory before execution. I would have > thought you, who was born in 1986 would never had to get to that > level. Personally, I think it's a really valuable exercise even if > one never actually needs to use it in a "real" program just to get a better understanding of what a processor "sees" > and how base 16 numbers can be turned into both instructions and data > depending upon how the processor looks at them. > > In the network edition of "Bank Street Writer" a word processing > program written entirely in assembly, that was pretty popular in the > years before you learned to talk, I added a function called, > "DON'T_CALL_THIS." If you did call it the program would crash as the > instructions looked random. If, however, you looked at the last > handful of bytes of the program as ASCII, it read "FSMITHISAWORM." > Frank Smith, a really great guy, was the client on the gig and we > decided to immortalize him in an Easter Egg that only an ubergeek could find. > > Now, just for shits and giggles, try to reconstruct the function in > 80x86 assembly and receive the truly wasted chunk of time award. > > cdh > > -----Original Message----- > From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sina > Bahram > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 9:28 PM > To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: RE: what is Hex? > > *smile*, wlel actually, if you really want to get down to it ... it can be. > > Assembler compiles down to executable instructions to the processor, > which are most often and most easily read in hex. > > I used to know almost all of the 8086 instructions and some of their > hex equivalents a while back. It's really useful when analysing > exploit and virus code. > > Take care, > Sina > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Alex Hall > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 8:47 PM > To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: re: what is Hex? > > Right, but it almost sounds like some sort of programming language. > > Have a great day, > Alex > > > ----- Original Message ----- > >From: Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@xxxxxxxxxxxx > >To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > >Date sent: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 17:27:12 -0800 > >Subject: re: what is Hex? > > >Hi Alex, > >It's a shortened form of hexadecimal. > >Cheers, > >Joseph > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >>From: Alex Hall <mehgcap@xxxxxxx > >>To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > >>Date sent: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 20:18:21 -0500 > >>Subject: what is Hex? > > >>Hi all > >>Whatis this Hex that has been talked about > >recently? > > >>Have a great day, > >>Alex > >>__________ > >>View the list's information and change your > >settings at > >>//www.freelists.org/list/programmingblin > >d > > >__________ > >View the list's information and change your settings at > >//www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind > > > __________ > View the list's information and change your settings at > //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind > > __________ > View the list's information and change your settings at > //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind > > > > __________ NOD32 2878 (20080215) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ > View the list's information and change your settings at > //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind > > -- When you say "I wrote a program that crashed Windows," people just stare at you blankly and say "Hey, I got those with the system, for free." Linus Torvalds __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind __________ NOD32 2897 (20080222) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind __________ NOD32 2897 (20080222) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind __________ NOD32 2897 (20080222) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind __________ NOD32 2897 (20080222) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind