[program-java] Re: Java certification

  • From: "E.J. Zufelt" <lists@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: program-java@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 12:16:34 -0400

If you are talking about the following book, I have been reading it on Safari.

SCJP Sun® Certified Programmer for Java™ 6 Study Guide Exam (310-065)

By: Kathy Sierra; Bert Bates

Publisher: McGraw-Hill Osborne Media

Publication Date: 24-JUN-2008


I point this out because I don't recall if you mentioned having Safari access 
or being willing to read online or not.  I have free access with my local 
library card.

HTH,
Everett Zufelt
http://zufelt.ca

Follow me on Twitter
http://twitter.com/ezufelt

View my LinkedIn Profile
http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt



On 2010-08-25, at 11:06 AM, Stanzel, Susan - Kansas City, MO wrote:

> I am going to join a study group. The book used is "Sun Cirtified Programmer 
> for Java 6 Study Guide" SCJP by Kathy Sierra and Bert Bates 
> 
> Does anyone know of this book? I think it weighs three pounds. I would hate 
> to scan it in (grin).
> 
> Susie
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: program-java-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> [mailto:program-java-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Fidler
> Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 10:00 AM
> To: program-java@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [program-java] Re: Java certification
> 
> Jim,
> 
> Agreed!  To help clarify, in this thread I was initially assuming first that 
> the developer has some real world experience since Susie fits this category 
> from what I have been able to deduce based on her posts.  Now that the 
> thread has taken on a larger scope:
> 
> In my experieince, the reputable certifications seem to provide an edge in 
> many cases.  In those cases where a company is looking for more senior 
> candidates who have some real world experience in a production environment, 
> it seems that the reputable credentials provide some advantage in that it 
> 'ensures' some understood baseline mastery of the subject.  Also, I have 
> noticed that 'fresh' recruits tend to have better success if they come from 
> a prestigious school (e.g. here in Western PA Carnegie Mellon credentials 
> are sacred) or if they do not have this, a reputable certification does 
> provide an edge over the competition in many cases for the same reason as 
> above.
> 
> It may take a couple of weeks to understand the development life cycle 
> activities in the real world (e.g. source code version control, test driven 
> development, functional requirement walkthroughs,technical design, technical 
> design walkthroughs, development environment vs. integration/staging 
> environment vs. QA environments, related defect and enhancement request 
> during the development life cycle in these various environments, etc. etc.), 
> and it takes maybe a few months before these processes become reflexive and 
> familiar.But, if the developer is lacking certain areas of expertise in the 
> constructs and theory of the language itself, that learning curve can be a 
> matter of months or maybe even years or even never!  It just helps to know 
> with some degree of certainty that the candidate has a good grasp on the 
> language-level concerns so their time will be spent learning real world 
> development processes while doing the familiar problem solving in their 
> daily programming tasks.
> 
> Along other lines,  I guess if nothing else, the certification indicates 
> ambition or assertiveness or just a deep interest in the subject matter, 
> etc.   It may also indicate that the candidate takes the career practicing 
> the subject matter seriously, as well.  More generally, I guess it is 
> reflective of the candidate's character: it just indicates that the 
> candidate is cognizant of the importance of verifying a certain baseline of 
> knowledge in the context of understanding that it is a competitive field, 
> indicating that they take the whole matter seriously.
> 
> Thinking back to a former post, I suppose the lister that said, 'It can't 
> hurt.' summed it up very well without all of my extra words!
> 
> Kind regards,
> Jeff
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Corbett, James" <James.Corbett@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <program-java@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 9:49 AM
> Subject: [program-java] Re: Java certification
> 
> 
> Jeff:
> 
> Interesting perspective.
> 
> I agree that it's hard to fake certifications that are registered with 
> reparable organisations but a certification alone does not make a 
> programmer. I've seen those who are certified up the ying yang but couldn't 
> produce in a prod environment.
> 
> Jim
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: program-java-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> [mailto:program-java-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Fidler
> Sent: August 23, 2010 16:56
> To: program-java@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [program-java] Re: Java certification
> 
> Hi, Jim.  It used to be this way at the company I am presently employed, but 
> they have pretty much phased out internal traning, and have found that 
> without the credibility of a Java certification for the senior developers, 
> much of the more senior work was being handled by the much more expensive 
> contractors that were hired to fill in the gaps.  (Much of the time, these 
> contractors did not carry the required skills themselves, and were being 
> paid 25-40% more than the full timers!)  This is all very recent -- a 
> transition over the past 3 or 4 years, really.  Much of it is related to the 
> need for the large corporation to get the most bang out of its employee 
> buck, if we are to believe the powers that be.  I think it also provides a 
> baseline in terms of skillset so they are able to offload the cost of 
> technical folks taking time away from project work to do interviews and 
> evaluate job candidates for senior positions more generally.  After all, one 
> can fake up a resume and professional references with some degree of 
> confidence as the looming overhead cost in time (and therefore money) can be 
> substantial if there is some doubt in the prospective employer's mind, but 
> one cannot fake up the Sun certification as easily: it is either on record 
> with Sun or it is not.
> 
> - Jeff
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Corbett, James" <James.Corbett@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <program-java@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Monday, August 23, 2010 4:33 PM
> Subject: [program-java] Re: Java certification
> 
> 
> Hi:
> 
> It seems as though I live in a parallel universe as it relates to the job
> environment.
> 
> Where I work, the emphasis is on experience and the core skill sets that we
> attain during the years of service. Its expected that a given level you must
> meet the core levels but as to the specifics of whether you are a JCL / HTML
> / COBOL / Java developer those unique skill sets are part of the day to day
> job and are offered to us through our education plan.
> 
> Jim
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: program-java-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:program-java-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Fidler
> Sent: August 23, 2010 16:27
> To: program-java@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [program-java] Re: Java certification
> 
> Hello, Susie.  In the corporation at which I am presently employed, it is
> required for senior Java developers and junior architects to have their SCJP
> certification.  (I am currently studying for the SCJP myself, and also am
> quite curious to learn what it may entail for a blind applicant as my
> promotion to senior developer technical lead is contingent upon it!)  Also,
> those with these certifications generally receive about a + $10K salary
> offer when compared against those having equal work experience but without
> the official Sun certifications in the local market.  The same holds true
> for .NET developers in the western Pennsylvania area, too.  Those with the
> official Microsoft certifications are being offered significantly higher
> salaries when compared to those with equivalent experience but no
> certification in the majority of cases.  I think the important thing to
> discover is which certifications are meaningful and which are not.  I think
> those offered by Sun, Oracle, and Microsoft, to name a few of the big ones,
> carry some substantial weight.
> 
> I'll certainly share what I learn regarding the SCJP certification process.
> 
> Kind regards,
> Jeff
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Corbett, James" <James.Corbett@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <program-java@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Monday, August 23, 2010 4:11 PM
> Subject: [program-java] Re: Java certification
> 
> 
>> Ok, still not worth anything. Try looking at the SUN site for these
>> certification courses.... All they really are is a piece of paper that can
>> be hung on the wall.
>> 
>> If you must have the wall furniture to get ahead we can actually look at a
>> particular course together. I have certification in Basic Java,
>> Intermediate Java, Struts 1.3 and J2E 3.0.
>> 
>> J.
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: program-java-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:program-java-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Stanzel, Susan -
>> Kansas City, MO
>> Sent: August 23, 2010 15:47
>> To: program-java@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [program-java] Re: Java certification
>> 
>> I asked a friend what he has and he has a "Sun Certified Java Programmer"
>> certification.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Susie
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: program-java-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:program-java-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Stanzel, Susan -
>> Kansas City, MO
>> Sent: Monday, August 23, 2010 2:42 PM
>> To: program-java@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [program-java] Java certification
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> We seem to have two threads going. To get back to my question. I am
>> looking into certification. I will be working in the persistence area with
>> validation and using Struts.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Susie Stanzel
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
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