-=PCTechTalk=- Re: offtopic, remodeling project/home

  • From: Gman <gman.pctt@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <pctechtalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 01:32:09 -0400

    The sink only needs removal if it's of the pedestal variety.  If it's 
surrounded with a cabinet that will remain in place (or if you replace the 
existing one with a new one of any size before they begin), they will just 
tile up to it or the new one, cutting in the tiles as needed.  When 
finished, it should appear as though the tiles go right under the cabinet, 
but they won't.

    The backing I'm talking about can be of several types, but they all 
provide water-proofing.  If I were doing the job, I would tear out all 
tiling and its backing that already exists down to the studs and then either 
nail up cement board (1/4 or 1/2 inch thick boards made from formed cement 
wrapped in a cheesecloth material for rigidity) or greenboard (drywall with 
a green water-resistant paper coating) to replace whatever was behind the 
tiles before.  I strongly suspect the previous installer only used regular 
paper covered drywall which is what led to the failure you're describing. 
That's a complete no-no as moisture will always find a way through grout and 
mortar.  My decision on which one to use will be based on how close to 
square and level your walls turn out to be once stripped down to studs.  If 
I choose cement board, I can set my tile right to it with minimal prep work, 
but the boards themselves are really heavy and more difficult to carry up or 
down stairs, where most bathrooms are found.  If I were to go with 
greenboard, I would then install a water-proof material over it to 
completely prevent any moisture from ever reaching those boards (and you 
would never experience what you're now describing behind those tiles).  My 
preference for this water-proofing material is called Kerdi and is made by a 
company called Schluter Systems.  When I do a side job, I need to use the 
absolute best products that will ensure that the job does not fail within my 
lifetime (and I expect to live a long time).  This is one of the products I 
have come to adore.


    For the floor, whatever is installed will also have to be brought up to 
the level of the existing material on the other side of the door.  For most 
homes, this means the hallway or bedroom carpet, which is normally about 1/2 
inch thick at the doorways.  Since floor tile is usually about 1/4 inch 
thick, I would either use 1/4 inch cement board (again, for its rigidity, 
but it would also serve to isolate the tile from your subfloor to allow for 
subfloor expansion/contraction) or another Schluter Systems product called 
Ditra that's made specifically for tile flooring.  Ditra is basically Kerdi 
with an added hard vinyl layer that allows it to serve at least 4 really 
important functions.  The one drawback of Ditra is that it is thinner than 
1/4 inch, so it's not always the best choice for raising the height of a 
floor.  If your bathroom has a marble threshold, I would give Ditra very 
strong consideration since the tiles will not necessarily need to come all 
the way up to the height of the marble (assuming the threshold edges are 
beveled).  You can read more about Ditra below.  I love this stuff almost as 
much as the Kerdi.       lol


    While the present tiles may be large on the walls and tiny on the floor, 
there's nothing that prevents you from making other choices.  If her 
individual floor tiles are only 1 or 2 square inches, then you're looking at 
tiles that were originally designed for shower stall floors instead of 
regular floor tiles.  Most of the bathroom floor tiling I do uses tiles that 
are anywhere from 6 to 12 square inches, with 12 being the norm, even in 
very small bathrooms.  They're much easier to keep clean than the tiny ones 
and require a lot less grout, which is of benefit to both installer and 
homeowner.  For walls, my norm has been installing 6 square inch tiles, 
though I often find myself installing tiles that are 4 X 4, 6 X 10 and 2 X 5 
(installed in a brick wall design).  I will also make suggestions for visual 
relief such as what you'll see in the following links.


    As to giving you an estimate,  I would say the whole thing shouldn't 
take a 2 person crew longer than 5 - 7 days, assuming you do the 
deconstruction part.  I can't even begin to give you a cost estimate without 
knowing the dimensions of everything you need covered along with the size of 
the tiles to be used for each surface as well as any non-standard requests 
such as bordering & relief , laying tiles at a 90 degree angle to the walls, 
shelving, towel racks, etc..  what I can tell you is that prices are not 
just dependent on what is to be done.  They also fluctuate based on where 
you live.  A job performed in my section of the country (back woods) will be 
much cheaper than what they can charge in NYC where the cost of living is so 
much higher.  This may help explain why I am broke.      lol

    Still, it's best that you get these estimates while you're out choosing 
sizes, shapes and colors anyway.


"The only dumb questions are the ones that are never asked"

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "cristy" <poppy0206@xxxxxxx>
To: <pctechtalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 12:06 AM
Subject: -=PCTechTalk=- Re: offtopic, remodeling project/home

> Hmm, I hadn't considered the toilet and sink and all having to be removed 
> to
> do the work.  The sink is an enclosure type cabinet under it, however; she
> really needs a new sink also so I guess I'd have to decide or she would if
> and when we get a new one, whether it will be cabinet like or pedestal.
> What kind of backing are you referring to with the tile that surrounds the
> tub area? some kind of waterproof thing?  I am wondering what caused these
> tiles to just "cave in".   I went to grab for the one falling and could 
> not
> get it and noticed there is space back there for it to fall.  I wondered 
> how
> was it staying in place to begin with?  I can see others along the same 
> side
> of the wall toward where the tub meets the tile that are starting to cave 
> in
> too.
> I know you cannot tell me the exact cost but any estimates?  I would say
> there are more tiles on the wall than the floor as it is a very small 
> floor.
> The tiles are larger on the wall, small on the floor.  How long does a job
> like this typically take?  Lowes put down her laminate and it looks like
> they did a really good job by the way.  Also I am off work as of last 
> Friday
> for the summer so being at moms while they come to work is no problem. Is
> the glue they use strong smelling?
> Wish you could do the work, I know I could trust you to do a good job and 
> I
> love to cook ;0 

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